How do you determine how fast an item sinks in water ?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the sinking speed of an object in water, focusing on the relevant formulas and factors such as drag coefficients and object shape. Participants explore theoretical and practical aspects of the topic.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire about a simple formula for calculating how quickly an item sinks in water, suggesting that it involves a drag coefficient related to the object's shape.
  • One participant mentions Stokes' law of resistance as a starting point for understanding sinking speed.
  • Another participant notes that the sinking speed is proportional to the shape and density of the object, specifically mentioning that for a sphere, it relates to the diameter squared and the density.
  • It is suggested that the settling velocity can vary with the object's size, and that Brownian motion may influence very small objects.
  • A detailed equation for drag force is provided, which includes the drag coefficient, reference area, and water density, along with a discussion of how to combine this with Newton's second law to find acceleration and final velocity.
  • There is mention of the dependency of the drag coefficient on the Reynolds number, with specific conditions under which Stokes' law applies.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the factors affecting sinking speed, with no consensus reached on a single formula or approach. Multiple competing views on the applicability of different laws and coefficients remain evident.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of determining the drag coefficient, which may depend on the Reynolds number, and the need for assumptions regarding the object's size and shape. The discussion does not resolve which specific model or formula is most appropriate for different scenarios.

bertyboy
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Could someone show me the simple formula, showing how quickly
an item sinks in water.
Presumably the formula incorporates some sort of drag co-efficient,
which relates to the shape of the body ?

:confused:
 
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bertyboy said:
Could someone show me the simple formula, showing how quickly
an item sinks in water.
Presumably the formula incorporates some sort of drag co-efficient,
which relates to the shape of the body ?

:confused:
Check up on Stokes' law of resistance.
 
It is proportional to the shape and denisty of the object. For a sphere it is proprotional to Diameter * Diameter * Pi (The cross sectional area of the center of the sphere) and the density of course.

Check out lecture 27 and 28 for the exact equations here: http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Physics/8-01Physics-IFall1999/VideoLectures/index.htm
 
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bertyboy said:
Could someone show me the simple formula, showing how quickly
an item sinks in water.
Presumably the formula incorporates some sort of drag co-efficient,
which relates to the shape of the body ?

:confused:

The settling velocity can vary depending on the size of the object. As arildno pointed out, Stoke's Law is a good place to start. However, if the size of the object is very small, it may be influenced by Brownian motion.

Intermediate Law is another approach.

CS
 
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Hi.

You can start from the following equation for the drag force
[tex]F_D=C_DA \frac{\rho v^2}{2}[/tex]

Here [tex]v[/tex] is the speed og the object and [tex]\rho[/tex] is the density of the water. [tex]A[/tex] is the referense area used to define the drag coefficient [tex]C_D[/tex], usually the projected cross-section area in the direction of the velocity.

Combine this with Newtons second law:
[tex]ma=mg-F_D[/tex]
Then you have an expression for the acceleration of the object. If you want the final velocity you take [tex]a=0[/tex] and solve for [tex]v[/tex].

The tricky part here is that the drag coefficient [tex]C_D[/tex], in general, depends on [tex]v[/tex] (or actually on the Reynolds number). If Re<1 you can use Stokes law, but that would require a quite small (or very light) object. For more typical engineering type appications a constant [tex]C_D[/tex] is often applicable. For a sphere [tex]C_D\approx0.44[/tex] for a quite large range of Reynolds numbers.

If you don't know at all what Reynolds number you expect you may have to guess what relation to use for drag coefficient, calculate the velocity, calculate the Reynolds number and then check if the drag law you used is compatible with the this Reynolds number. If not, try another drag law.
 

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