How Do You Integrate the Function 1/x?

  • Context: High School 
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    Function Integrating
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the integration of the function 1/x, exploring various methods to derive its antiderivative and the conventions surrounding logarithmic notation in calculus. Participants share insights on both the mathematical derivation and the notational differences between ln(x) and log(x).

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that the antiderivative of 1/x is ln(x), but express uncertainty about how to derive this result.
  • One participant suggests using online resources to find the integral of 1/x, indicating a more casual approach to learning.
  • A detailed derivation of ln(x) is presented, involving limits and properties of exponential functions, which some participants find insightful.
  • There is a discussion about the notation of logarithms, with some asserting that log[x] represents the natural logarithm in calculus, while others contest this based on their experiences.
  • Participants mention that different fields, such as engineering and mathematics, may use log to refer to different bases, leading to confusion.
  • Some express a preference for using ln for natural logarithms to avoid ambiguity, while others argue that log should default to base e in calculus contexts.
  • There is a humorous exchange regarding the use of logarithmic scales in practical applications, like sound levels and power amplification, and the historical context of these conventions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the notation of logarithms, with multiple competing views on whether log[x] should be interpreted as the natural logarithm or base 10 logarithm. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best practices for using logarithmic notation in different contexts.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight that the understanding of logarithmic notation may vary by educational background and regional practices, indicating a lack of uniformity in definitions across different fields and cultures.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students learning calculus, educators discussing notation conventions, and professionals in mathematics and engineering who encounter logarithmic functions in their work.

  • #31
to me, integral means limit of riemann sums, so integral of 1/x means just that. i.e. it means area under the graPH OF Y = 1/X.

now it is a theorem that this area function has a derivative which equals 1/x, and it is also a theorem that this area functioin behaves like a logarith, hence must be one, but all this is a long story.


By the way I love the following proof:

"Now if the limit exists, which you can see it clearly does by looking at the graph,"


I had always though it difficult to prove this limit exists! Another equivalent argument would be perhaps "which is clear from sticking your finger into the wind,.."
 
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  • #32
it wasn't a rigorous proof. to anyone familiar with the graph, you know that it is differentiable. to prove this would be tricky, but all i meant to do was show why e is involved in this integral at all, and i did that.
 
  • #33
mathwonk said:
By the way I love the following proof:

"Now if the limit exists, which you can see it clearly does by looking at the graph,"


I had always though it difficult to prove this limit exists! Another equivalent argument would be perhaps "which is clear from sticking your finger into the wind,.."

And your point is? :smile:

It's in the fine tradition of Pierre Laplace, patron saint of math teachers. As Laplace's translator, Nathaniel Bowditch once said, "I never came across one of Laplace's 'Thus it plainly appears' without feeling sure that I have hours of hard work before me to fill up the chasm and find and show how it plainly appears."

Personally, I just go with George Castanza's "Yada yada yada ..."
 
  • #34
I'm a mathematics major and we don't use log(x) to mean natural log. Maybe some professors have certain biases over others.
 
  • #35
What sort of math courses have you taken so far though? I don't think I've seen log to mean base 10 outside of high school or some texts used in the initial calculus stream (and calculators too I suppose). log is pretty much universally accepted to mean base e, at least when mathematicians are talking to one another (and not first year calculus students).

I haven't seen anyone mention base 2 yet. In some cryptography papers I've read published in computer science journals they used log to mean base 2. It was a convenient choice, but a standard that confused me when I first encountered it.

About the "ln" notation, most of you probably used it in your first calculus course at least. I was taught to pronounce "ln" as "lawn", as were most other students I've run across. I've recently been told this was a Canadian thing and that Americans don't do this. So I've been wondering how other countries teach you to pronounce "ln".
 
  • #36
"Ell enn".
 
  • #37
well i mostly pronounce it as "ell enn" but if u run across my country , you are going to hear different accentuated versions of it like this "Yull Yunn" :p

-- AI
 
  • #38
Muzza said:
"Ell enn".

I had a girlfriend named Ellen. Then we broke up and she became Ellen ex-girlfriend. I begged her to come back. I bought her gifts. I even differentiated her, to no avail.

Suddenly it occurred how to me that no matter what I did, Ellen would remain constant. So all I really had to do was integrate her: Ellen \int ex-girlfiend
 
  • #39
now, i have always thought that in mathematics you had to be consistent, is ellen girlfriend or girlfiend? :-p
 
  • #40
BobG said:
Suddenly it occurred how to me that no matter what I did, Ellen would remain constant. So all I really had to do was integrate her: Ellen \int ex-girlfiend

I like that. You really must have been thinking about her to come up with that.
 
  • #41
int of x!

how about integrating x!
 
  • #42
integrate x!

how abot integrating x!
 
  • #43
it"s simple and short

inx answer
 

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