How does General Relativity explain the orbit of a planet around a star?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on how General Relativity (GR) explains the orbit of a planet around a star, particularly focusing on the concept of geodesics in curved spacetime and the implications of projecting these geodesics onto three-dimensional space. The scope includes theoretical interpretations and conceptual clarifications regarding spacetime dimensions.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that to map the precession of Mercury, GR practitioners must project curved spacetime onto what they refer to as "real" spacetime.
  • Another participant questions the term "real" spacetime, indicating unfamiliarity with it and seeking clarification.
  • A different participant explains that the planet's path is a projection of a geodesic in 4D spacetime onto 3D space, emphasizing the spatial aspect of the orbit.
  • Some participants suggest that the term "real" spacetime may be incorrect, proposing that curved 4D spacetime is not mapped anywhere since we exist within it.
  • There is a discussion about perceiving events as sequences of 3-dimensional slices of 4D spacetime, indicating that these slices are projections of the full four-dimensional worldline.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the concept of "real" spacetime and the implications of projecting geodesics, indicating that there is no consensus on these interpretations.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the ambiguity surrounding the term "real" spacetime and the nature of projections from 4D to 3D, suggesting that assumptions about these concepts may be unresolved.

HarryWertM
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The wikipedia article titled "Geodesics & General Relativity" opens with:

"the path of a planet orbiting around a star is the projection of a geodesic of the curved 4-D spacetime geometry around the star onto 3-D space."

Uhhhh... "Real" spacetime has four dimensions - 3 space; 1 time. To map the precession of Mercury in "real" spacetime, GR practitioners MUST be projecting GR's "curved" spacetime onto "real" spacetime.

No?
 
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HarryWertM said:
GR practitioners MUST be projecting GR's "curved" spacetime onto "real" spacetime.
What do you mean by '"real" spacetime'? I have never heard such a term.
 
HarryWertM said:
"the path of a planet orbiting around a star is the projection of a geodesic of the curved 4-D spacetime geometry around the star onto 3-D space."
All they're saying here is that the planet traces out a path in 4D spacetime. The path of the planet -- the spatial route taken by the planet -- is the projection of this 4D geodesic onto the 3D (spatial) hypersurface.
 
What do you mean by '"real" spacetime'? I have never heard such a term.
I likewise never heard the term until I searched for words to understand Wikipedia. Maybe they are just wrong. Curved 4D spacetime maybe is not mapped anywhere because we are actually living in it?
 
HarryWertM said:
I likewise never heard the term until I searched for words to understand Wikipedia. Maybe they are just wrong. Curved 4D spacetime maybe is not mapped anywhere because we are actually living in it?

Right, but we perceive events as a sequence of 3-dimensional slices of 4-dimension spacetime, strung together by observations at different time values. So the 3-d slices we perceive are the projection of the full four-dimensional worldline into the three spatial dimensions.
 

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