How Does Magnetic Potential Energy Affect Magnetism and Energy Transfer?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of magnetic potential energy and its relationship to magnetism and energy transfer, particularly in the context of a magnet lifting a paperclip. Participants explore analogies between magnetic and gravitational fields, the nature of magnetic charges, and the behavior of ferromagnetic materials.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Chris Carter questions the source of energy when a magnet lifts a paperclip and whether the magnet loses energy to the paperclip.
  • Some participants assert that magnetic potential energy exists, noting that magnetic charges are typically dipoles rather than monopoles.
  • There is a discussion about whether the situation with the paperclip in a magnetic field is analogous to a mass in a gravitational field, with some participants suggesting similarities and others highlighting differences.
  • One participant mentions that the proximity of the magnet affects the alignment of the paperclip's magnetic domains, which introduces additional potential energy considerations.
  • Another participant contrasts the behavior of soft ferromagnets, like the paperclip, with hard permanent magnets, suggesting that gravity behaves differently than magnetism.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the analogy between magnetic and gravitational energy transfers, with no consensus reached on the nature of magnetic potential energy or its implications.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of magnetic interactions and the need for further clarification on the definitions and behaviors of magnetic charges and potential energy in different contexts.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those exploring concepts in magnetism, energy transfer, and the differences between gravitational and magnetic forces.

Chris
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When a magnet is used to lift up a paperclip, clearly it gains gravitational potential energy. Where does this energy come from? Does the magnet lose energy to the paperclip? Does the magnet regain this energy when the paperclip is removed from the magnetic field? I have never heard of the phrase "magnetic potential energy"! :confused:
Thanks in advance for any insight anyone can provide!

Chris Carter
 
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Nevertheless, there is such a thing. Magnetic charges (monopoles) do not exist independently; the most elementary magnetic charge is a dipole. Since dipole fields are more complicated than say the electric field from a single charge, they, and their energy formulas don't appear in the most elementary textbooks. So most people do not run into the concept of magnetic potential energy.
 
Thanks krab.
So is this situation (paperclip in magnetic field) analagous to that of a mass in a gravitational field, in terms of energy transfers?
 
Macroscopically, almost...

Magnets might cause the paperclip to rotate, (but not gravity). So there is extra potential energy if the paperclip is previously magnetized, and if the paper clip and magnet are not aligned. The position of both poles (whether you use a bar or a horse shoe for example) might also come into play.
 
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To amplify on Gonzolo: The proximity of the magnet to the paper clip changes the paper clip, lining the magnetic domains up. In this sense, the situation is not analogous to gravity. The reason is that the paper clip is a "soft" ferromagnet; it magnetizes when another magnet is nearby, but demagnetizes if it is taken out of the external magnetic field. Gravity is more analogous to a situation of two permanent magnets. (Permanent magnets are "hard".) Except that in gravity there are only monopoles, while in magnetism therefore only dipoles. You can get round this problem by considering two very long bar magnets arranged N-S to N-S so they are almost touching. If they are sufficiently long, then you can neglect the outboard poles and consider the almost-touching poles alone. These will act like monopoles, and for short distances will have a force law similar to two gravitating bodies.
 
Thanks guys! :smile:
 

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