How does mechanical energy work?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conservation of mechanical energy, particularly in the context of predicting velocities in systems like pendulums and roller coasters. Participants explore how mechanical energy conservation applies despite the complexities of motion in these systems, focusing on theoretical and practical implications without reaching a consensus.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about how mechanical energy conservation applies to predicting velocity in complex motions like those of a pendulum or roller coaster, despite using the same equations as in simpler free-fall scenarios.
  • Another participant notes that while roller coasters and pendulums are geometrically constrained, they are still governed by gravitational potential energy at any given time.
  • A different participant explains that for conservative forces like gravity, the sum of potential energy (PE) and kinetic energy (KE) remains constant, emphasizing that changes in PE correspond to changes in KE.
  • Further clarification is provided that in the absence of friction and inelastic collisions, mechanical energy is conserved, allowing for the exchange between potential and kinetic energy.
  • One participant outlines a method for calculating velocity at different heights on a roller coaster using the conservation of energy equation, demonstrating how potential energy converts to kinetic energy as the coaster descends.
  • A later reply introduces the idea that the simplifications made in calculations may overlook factors like the rotational kinetic energy of the coaster's wheels, suggesting a more complex energy distribution than initially considered.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the principle of conservation of mechanical energy but express differing views on the implications and complexities of applying this principle to real-world scenarios like roller coasters and pendulums. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the full impact of factors such as friction and rotational energy on energy conservation.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include assumptions about the absence of friction and inelastic collisions, which may not hold in practical situations. Additionally, the discussion does not resolve how rotational kinetic energy influences the overall energy conservation in roller coasters.

Mr Davis 97
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I am a little confused about how mechanical energy conservation operates when it comes to things like predicting velocity. I know that if conservative forces are the only forces acting on a body, then we can say that mechanical energy is conserved. This is simple to see when we have lateral up and down motion, but when it comes to predicting the velocity of a pendulum or a roller coaster (neglecting all friction) I'm not sure how the law operates. For example, given the initial peak height of the roller coaster, I can predict the velocity at any point, despite the fact that there are various loops and curves. And for a pendulum, the motion is in an arc. Despite these complexities, the same equations used for these situations are used for simple free-falling situations. Could someone give me a deeper understanding of how these equations are able to make predictions about velocity and such in complex situations like riding a roller coaster?
 
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The roller coaster or the pendulum are simply geometrically constrained but are still governed by the potential gravitational energy that they have at any instance of time.

Making assumptions that there is no friction and all collisions are perfectly elastic is not very realistic but the conservation principle still holds.
 
For a conservative force as gravity the sum of the PE and the KE is constant. Thus (neglecting friction of course) you can say a change in PE plus the corresponding change in KE is equal to zero. Thus ΔPE = - ΔKE. If the PE decreases the KE increases by the same amount. In a gravitational field those changes depend only on the radial distance moved. Any solely lateral or sideways displacement does not produce a change in PE and thus the KE is not affected.
 
To add to gleem's answer, from the point of view of conservation of energy, in the absence of friction, air resistance, and inelastic collisions, there is no other form of energy into which mechanical energy will be converted, so it is conserved by itself. You can only exchange potential energy for kinetic energy and vice versa.
 
...when it comes to predicting the velocity of a pendulum or a roller coaster (neglecting all friction) I'm not sure how the law operates.

Conservation of Energy says that any instant..

KE + PE = Constant ...... (1)

So a roller coaster trades KE and PE back and forth keeping the total energy constant.

If you start a coaster at height h and just let go it starts with PE = mgh and KE=0. Plug that into eqn1 and you get...

constant = mgh.

Lets say you want to calculate the velocity when the coaster has rolled down to new height h'

At that point the PE remaining = mgh' so eqn 1 becomes..

KE + mgh' = mgh
or
KE = mg (h - h')

In the case of a roller coaster KE also equals mv2/2 so you can write..

mv2/2 = mg (h-h')

Mass cancels and you can rearrange what's left to give an equation for the velocity some point h'..

v = SQRT{2g(h-h')}
 
PS...

In the case of a roller coaster KE also equals mv2/2

Perhaps I should add that this is bit of a simplification. For example the wheels of the coaster might behave like flywheels so some of the KE maybe stored in the rotating mass of the wheels.
 

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