How Does Momentum and Energy Conservation Apply to a Tarzan Swing Collision?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of momentum and energy conservation principles in the context of a Tarzan swing collision scenario. Participants are exploring the dynamics of the system as Tarzan swings and collides with Jane, considering the implications of mass, velocity, and energy transformations throughout the motion.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants attempt to analyze the problem by drawing diagrams and listing known variables. They explore the relationships between potential and kinetic energy, questioning how these change during the swing and collision phases. Some participants suggest letting the length of the vine be a variable to simplify calculations, while others discuss the conservation of momentum and energy during the collision.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing hints and guidance to each other. There is a focus on understanding the conservation laws at different stages of the swing and collision. Multiple interpretations of the energy and momentum conservation principles are being explored, particularly regarding the nature of the collision and the role of potential energy.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working within the constraints of a homework problem, which may limit the information available. There is a recognition of the need to clarify assumptions about the system, such as the initial conditions and the nature of the collision.

  • #31
bieon said:
Ah dang... :/
Try leaving it as ##h_1, h_2## for now. That's simpler. We can sort out these in terms of angles later.
 
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  • #32
PeroK said:
Try leaving it as ##h_1, h_2## for now. That's simpler. We can sort out these in terms of angles later.

Like this?

Without Jane,
##Mg##(##h_1##)=½ ##Mv_1##2

With Jane,
##(M+m)g##(##h_2##)=½ ##(M+m)v_2##2
 
  • #33
bieon said:
Like this?

Without Jane,
##Mg##(##h_1##)=½ ##Mv_1##2

With Jane,
##(M+m)g##(##h_2##)=½ ##(M+m)v_2##2
Yes. Now you need the equation for ##v_1## and ##v_2## you got from conservation of monentum.
 
  • #34
PeroK said:
Yes. Now you need the equation for ##v_1## and ##v_2## you got from conservation of monentum.

PS note that the masses cancel in those equations, so that simplifies things a bit.
 
  • #35
PeroK said:
PS note that the masses cancel in those equations, so that simllifies things a bit.
Ok, so I put them in terms of velocity now right?
M##g##(##h_1##)=½ M##v_1##2
2##g####h_1##= ##v_1##2

With Jane,
(M+m)##g##(##h_2##)=½ (M+m)##v_2##2
2##g####h_2##= ##v_2##2
 
  • #36
bieon said:
Ok, so I put them in terms of velocity now right?
M##g##(##h_1##)=½ M##v_1##2
2##g####h_1##= ##v_1##2

With Jane,
(M+m)##g##(##h_2##)=½ (M+m)##v_2##2
2##g####h_2##= ##v_2##2
That's good. Now use the relationship between ##v_1## and ##v_2## that you got many posts ago.
 
  • #37
PeroK said:
That's good. Now use the relationship between ##v_1## and ##v_2## that you got many posts ago.
(##M##+##m##)##√2####gh_2##=##M√2####gh_1##
This?
 
  • #38
bieon said:
so... V2=[m1/(m1+m2)]v1

(Sorry, I don't know how to use fraction here...)

This!
 
  • #39
PeroK said:
This!
Like this?
##√2####gh_2## =[M/(M+m)] ##√2####gh_1##
 
  • #40
bieon said:
(##M##+##m##)##√2####gh_2##=##M√2####gh_1##
This?
It looks like you've done it. Can you finish it off by expressing height in terms of angle.
 
  • #41
PeroK said:
It looks like you've done it. Can you finish it off by expressing height in terms of angle.
I believe I can! Thank you so much! I am sorry for the trouble!
 
  • #42
PeroK said:
It looks like you've done it. Can you finish it off by expressing height in terms of angle.
Uhm I think I had trouble, I know the general concept of l-lcos but I am not sure where it came from...
 
  • #43
bieon said:
Uhm I think I had trouble, I know the general concept of l-lcos but I am not sure where it came from...

It's just trigonometry.
 
  • #44
PeroK said:
It's just trigonometry.
but why is it L - L cos θ ?
Sorry, I just want to understand more
 
  • #47
In summary: $${\left(\frac{m}{m+50}\right)}^2=\frac{h_2}{h_1}$$. We do however perhaps need to question a little the physics of this situation since momentum is conserved in the absence of an external force. If the transfer of momentum in the collision is not instantaneous but rather over a finite time instant Δt , g could act if for a very brief instant. Collision energy in a perfectly inelastic collision is considered lost - here it's possible that some collision energy is not dissipated but rather absorbed by being converted to PE. Jane benefits because Tarzan does not make an instant impact!
 

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