How does the Indian Institute of Technology compare?

[supernova1203]

You mean for Engineering?

Honestly, we all should agree that US predominantly dominates every other nation when it comes to education system (at all levels). The Indian standards are trying to converge to their US counterparts. So, I think comparing Indian (or IIT) and US (or MIT) doesn't make sense to me. As someone rightly pointed out, one don't need to be in IIT for mugging up the text, it is there for some other big reason, I believe, but if one can't get the full use of the Institute, we can't blame the institute.

no i mean for ALL sciences, not just engineering, if you look at the timeline, over the past 200 years or so the very foundation of science(especially physical sciences, mathematics, physics, chem) were laid down by the germans.(Why this is, i do not know, but from what i have read they have a world class education system)

 

[flyingpig]

But Newton is British...

 

[supernova1203]

But Newton is British...

Leibniz invented calculus at the same time as Newton, whereas Newton just touched upon the subject leibniz from what i can gather went into greater detail, and while Newton was knighted, held a post at cambridge, had money and fame, leibniz died without a penny to his name in an unmarked grave. I rest my case :)

 

[odinsthunder]

But Newton is British...

He's English, you wouldn't get away with calling James Clerk Maxwell "British" would you?

 

[doodle_sack]

no i mean for ALL sciences, not just engineering, if you look at the timeline, over the past 200 years or so the very foundation of science(especially physical sciences, mathematics, physics, chem) were laid down by the germans.(Why this is, i do not know, but from what i have read they have a world class education system)

May be, but many if not all are either educated in USA or UK (I'm not generalizing here!).

 

[flyingpig]

No my point is that Newton isn't German

 

[doodle_sack]

Leibniz invented calculus at the same time as Newton, whereas Newton just touched upon the subject leibniz from what i can gather went into greater detail, and while Newton was knighted, held a post at cambridge, had money and fame, leibniz died without a penny to his name in an unmarked grave. I rest my case :)

I wouldn't agree to that entirely. The wikipedia says this - "Newton later became involved in a dispute with Leibniz over priority in the development of infinitesimal calculus. Most modern historians believe that Newton and Leibniz developed infinitesimal calculus independently, although with very different notations. Occasionally it has been suggested that Newton published almost nothing about it until 1693, and did not give a full account until 1704, while Leibniz began publishing a full account of his methods in 1684.
Starting in 1699, other members of the Royal Society (of which Newton was a member) accused Leibniz of plagiarism, and the dispute broke out in full force in 1711. The Royal Society proclaimed in a study that it was Newton who was the true discoverer and labelled Leibniz a fraud. This study was cast into doubt when it was later found that Newton himself wrote the study's concluding remarks on Leibniz. Thus began the bitter controversy which marred the lives of both Newton and Leibniz until the latter's death in 1716."

Stephen Hawking says something similar to this.

To the OP: I'm afraid the thread is going far off the topic! The work of Newton and Leibniz has got nothing to do with modern education system, especially in India and the USA.

 

[odinsthunder]

I wouldn't say German, but rather those of northern European ancestry or "Germanic", which would include both Newton and Leibniz.

 

[supernova1203]

I wouldn't say German, but rather those of northern European ancestry or "Germanic", which would include both Newton and Leibniz.

When i say german i don't mean anglo saxons/northern european in terms of linguistics(Note both were german tribes) i refer specifically to ethnic germans, or atleast part germans, or people of descent (Oppenheimer for example was an american but he was of german descent, his name is a give away but i think his parents immigrated to the states - correct me if I am wrong about this)

 

[jtbell]

Hey guys, how about keeping this thread at least vaguely related to the Indian Institute of Technology?

 

[odinsthunder]

When i say german i don't mean anglo saxons/northern european in terms of linguistics(Note both were german tribes) i refer specifically to ethnic germans, or atleast part germans, or people of descent (Oppenheimer for example was an american but he was of german descent, his name is a give away but i think his parents immigrated to the states - correct me if I am wrong about this)

Well in that case you're wrong, Newton, Maxwell, Dirac and Faraday. The list goes on and on. The mentioned few who laid the foundations for the Laws of motion, Electrodynamics , Quantum Mechanics etc.. etc.. I didn't even mention Darwin and his theory of evolution, oh wait I just did...

Oppenheimer isn't ethnic German by any stretch of the imagination. That name is ashkenazi jewish, and so is the bearer of that name.

Sorry, I'll shutup now...

 

[doodle_sack]

Hey guys, how about keeping this thread at least vaguely related to the Indian Institute of Technology?

Hahaha good one.

 

[PhDorBust]

I will never understand how an education system can go so perversely wrong. There's many good textbooks and resources available, and their pedagogy isn't difficult to capture.

 

[deRham]

Their technique is simple, make the pupil do as many problems of IRODOV's physics & similar level books for maths & chemistry, without any knowledge of the subject, but only the formulas for it.

Then they're being ineffective. As Rahul says, the exam, from what I heard from Indian friends, is very tough and it's not likely to be able to do well without proper understanding. Of course, there are elements to any exam that go outside understanding the concepts - you have to be prepared to take that exam in particular.

then the question is what makes the IITs research output so low?
the answer is the priorities of majority of indian students...which lie in a high paying jobs, since economic situation of a majority of the population is not really comfortable...hence, most students join jobs immediately after graduation

This seems to be correct. A lot of top Indian scholars end up in the top universities in the US for graduate study. Some end up being top faculty.



Honestly, our admissions system in the US for undergrad is pretty stupid too. Our graduate admissions system seems to strike the balance. Which is worse - asking students to cram for an exam that is very hard, and make that the sole basis of admissions without taking into account anything else, or having a laughable standardized testing curriculum and taking into account flowery personal essays that aim to get to know students but are really a game where students advertise themselves, so that half the people think the whole system is nonsensical?


I endorse graduate admissions in the US as having many priorities straight (being reasonably straightforward about what is asked, and generally admitting the brightest and most promising first, whether domestic or international, keeping personal essay topics very related to the goals in attending the school, along with special personal circumstances info which is of course important).


As for the education at the Indian schools vs. MIT / Caltech / other top technical schools, let's just say it seems as if there is no comparison: the US schools have many more opportunities in terms of breadth + depth of offerings and flexibility.

 

[deRham]

The main difference is that while in India, a degree is more of a requirement than an object of desire, in the US there are several other career avenues and students are therefore able to think more holistically during high school than just blindly following the herd to "do" engineering.

Regardless, most of the people in the US who have a clue know that this 'holistic' thinking is idealism. Exiting high school wanting to major in psychology because one wants to 'understand the human mind' is dumb - it takes a mixture of psychology, philosophy, science, sociology, understanding logic, and a whole host of things to really begin to understand the mind. Most people exiting US high schools are just not that smart, period.

What's worse, people get degrees from supposedly good schools in majors that aren't that hard to complete, and think their opinions are worthy of respect, without actually putting the careful thought and effort. I'm not sure that's better than people treating a degree as a requirement - a degree really ain't a holy calling.