How does the vibration of a sphere relate to the pressure field it generates?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between the vibration of a sphere and the pressure field it generates in a fluid medium. Participants explore the derivation of an equation that connects these concepts, focusing on the underlying physics and mathematical formulations involved.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant shares an equation relating the sphere's vibration to the pressure field but seeks a derivation of this equation.
  • Another participant speculates that the analysis likely involves inertial forces and suggests that the radius oscillation imposes a kinematic boundary condition.
  • A participant attempts to derive the equation using momentum and continuity equations but notes discrepancies in their results compared to the expected form.
  • Concerns are raised about the assumptions made regarding incompressibility and the implications for the velocity gradient in the fluid.
  • Further discussion reveals confusion about the presence of a 1/r^4 term in the textbook equation, with participants questioning how it arises in their derivations.
  • One participant proposes using the Euler equations in spherical coordinates to approach the problem, suggesting integration from the sphere to infinity to find the pressure at the sphere.
  • Another participant expresses frustration with their own approach, which does not yield the expected 1/r^4 term, and seeks clarification on potential mistakes in their reasoning.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the assumptions and methods used in their derivations, indicating that multiple competing approaches exist without a clear consensus on the correct method or outcome.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in their assumptions, such as the treatment of incompressibility and the handling of momentum across boundaries, which may affect the validity of their equations.

enc08
Messages
40
Reaction score
0
Hi,

Attached is the equation relating the vibration of a sphere radius R, to the pressure field it generates. ρ is the density of the medium in which the sphere sits.

The article I got this from just states the equation - I haven't been able to find anywhere that derives this equation.

Any help with how this equation comes about would be appreciated a lot!

Thanks,

enc08
 

Attachments

  • Capture.JPG
    Capture.JPG
    3.1 KB · Views: 533
Physics news on Phys.org
enc08 said:
Hi,

Attached is the equation relating the vibration of a sphere radius R, to the pressure field it generates. ρ is the density of the medium in which the sphere sits.

The article I got this from just states the equation - I haven't been able to find anywhere that derives this equation.

Any help with how this equation comes about would be appreciated a lot!

Thanks,

enc08
I can guess how this was derived. The only parameter in the equation is the density, so the analysis must involve only inertial forces. The radius of the sphere is oscillating, so this imposes a kinematic boundary condition. Within each radial shell, Newton's second law is satisfied on a differential basis. Maybe they've linearized the equation for small deviations from R, and it isn't clear whether R is the average radius or an actual function of t.

chet
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: 1 person
Something like this?
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: 1 person
Thanks. So I've tried to proceed starting from the momentum and continuity equations, and I get quite a close answer, but missing two things as explained below (I did it in an online Latex editor hence it's an image).
 

Attachments

  • Capture2.JPG
    Capture2.JPG
    29.4 KB · Views: 483
Small detail: your last equation should have ##\dot R^2## instead of ##\dot R##.

I don't see where your momentum conservation comes from. Where did the derivative with respect to r in the pressure vanish?
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: 1 person
Thanks for noting that.

Re momentum conservation: I make the assumption that the fluid in which the sphere sits is incompressible, so the partial derivative of velocity wrt radius becomes zero. That's how my momentum equation simplifies.

Thanks
 
so the partial derivative of velocity wrt radius becomes zero.
That can't be true (and it is not, if you check your velocity equation). The product v*r^2 is constant for incompressible fluids (I agree with that assumption).
 
I see, I had misread your question and looked at another part (you're right regarding the above).

For the pressure equation, I got rid of the derivative with respect to r by saying that grad(p) is a body force, and the scattered pressure is therefore r * grad(p), so that the scattered pressure Ps is actually Ps = r * grad(P).

I now see why I have an extra 1/r term; I haven't multiplied the momentum equation throughout by r according to my above reasoning. That would remove the extra r in the denominator.

I think my reasoning is right?

If so, that leaves only one outstanding difference to the textbook equation: where does their 1/r^4 term come from?

Thank you :)
 
Last edited:
The easiest way to do this problem is to look up the Euler equations in spherical coordinates and substitute the relationship you obtained from the continuity equation (velocity varying inversely with r2) into the radial component equation . You then integrate the radial pressure derivative from the sphere to infinity to get the pressure at the sphere.

Chet
 
  • #10
Hmmm, i used Newtons'2 2nd law for the volume of fluid between two imaginary spheres of radius r and r+dr and end up in a differential equation for pressure and velocity. Replacing the velocity obtained from the continuity equation and solving it yields an expression for pressure that doesn't include the 1/r^4 term. Whats wrong with this approach anyone can tell me?
 
  • #11
Delta² said:
Hmmm, i used Newtons'2 2nd law for the volume of fluid between two imaginary spheres of radius r and r+dr and end up in a differential equation for pressure and velocity. Replacing the velocity obtained from the continuity equation and solving it yields an expression for pressure that doesn't include the 1/r^4 term. Whats wrong with this approach anyone can tell me?
Please show us the details. The Euler equation is simply:

ρ\left(\frac{∂u}{∂t}+u\frac{∂u}{∂r}\right)=-\frac{∂p}{∂r}

Is this what your Newton's 2nd law equation boils down to? If you use this equation, do you get the "right" answer?

Chet
 
  • #12
Chestermiller said:
Please show us the details. The Euler equation is simply:

ρ\left(\frac{∂u}{∂t}+u\frac{∂u}{∂r}\right)=-\frac{∂p}{∂r}

Is this what your Newton's 2nd law equation boils down to? If you use this equation, do you get the "right" answer?

Chet

Ehm nope this isn't the equation i end up with. Apparently my mistake is that i didnt take into count the flow of momentum across the imaginary spheres. The equation you give is verified by the solution given at the OP.
 

Similar threads

Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
1K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
11K
Replies
0
Views
2K
  • · Replies 49 ·
2
Replies
49
Views
5K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
4K
  • · Replies 48 ·
2
Replies
48
Views
16K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K