How Does Viscous Force Relate to Velocity Gradient?

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Frigus
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Law Newton's law
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the relationship between viscous force and velocity gradient, particularly in the context of Newtonian fluids. Participants explore conceptual understandings, seek explanations without mathematics, and express challenges in grasping the underlying principles of fluid mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that viscous force depends linearly on the velocity gradient for Newtonian fluids.
  • Others emphasize the necessity of mathematics to fully explain viscosity and its relationship with velocity gradient.
  • A participant expresses a desire for a non-mathematical explanation, indicating difficulty in understanding the concept.
  • One participant suggests that a larger velocity gradient implies greater resistance, challenging the idea that viscous force should be inversely proportional to the velocity gradient.
  • There are suggestions to refer to textbooks for deeper understanding, with specific references to "Transport Phenomena" by Bird, Stewart, and Lightfoot.
  • Some participants express frustration over the expectation to provide detailed explanations without the use of mathematical frameworks.
  • Concerns are raised about the time constraints faced by students preparing for competitive exams, impacting their ability to engage with comprehensive texts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best approach to understanding the relationship between viscous force and velocity gradient. There are competing views on the necessity of mathematics for comprehension and differing opinions on how to effectively learn the material.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight limitations in understanding due to the absence of mathematical explanations, while others point out the challenges of grasping fluid mechanics concepts without engaging with the relevant mathematical principles.

Frigus
Messages
337
Reaction score
163
How does viscous force depends upon velocity gradient?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Linearly for a Newtonian fluid.

This answers your question -- but is it the question you are asking ?
 
BvU said:
Linearly for a Newtonian fluid.

This answers your question -- but is it the question you are asking ?
Sir I want the explanation

Please explain without the use of mathematics because I want to understand the concept which I am unable understand
 
Hemant said:
I want the explanation
I gathered that 😉
However, PF is not a good replacement for a textbook. Your 'no math' restriction may exclude a lot of sources, but many others remain.

What did you find so far ? Simple google brings up all kinds of useful info ... e.g. this
or wikipedia.

If I were you I'd face up to the math and ask more specific questions when stuck.A velocity gradient (isn't that math too ?) points to differing velocities inside the liquid. Faster bits of liquid will want to accelerate slower bits and slower bits will want to drag down the faster ones. I.e. transport (along the direction of the velocity gradient) of momentum in a direction perpendicular to that gradient. The liquid responds with resistance: a kind of friction.
 
Your question cannot be answered without mathematics since only with math one can explain what viscosity is. A very vague non-mathematical definition is that it is a transport coefficient that describes the dissipative transport of momentum.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Delta2
BvU said:
I gathered that 😉
However, PF is not a good replacement for a textbook. Your 'no math' restriction may exclude a lot of sources, but many others remain.

What did you find so far ? Simple google brings up all kinds of useful info ... e.g. this
or wikipedia.

If I were you I'd face up to the math and ask more specific questions when stuck.A velocity gradient (isn't that math too ?) points to differing velocities inside the liquid. Faster bits of liquid will want to accelerate slower bits and slower bits will want to drag down the faster ones. I.e. transport (along the direction of the velocity gradient) of momentum in a direction perpendicular to that gradient. The liquid responds with resistance: a kind of friction.
Thanks for giving advice sir,

Sir as I can understand velocity gradient is change in velocity with depth

If I am not wrong then when we move from from bottom to top,if then velocity gradient gradient is more then if we move from bottom to top a large diffference in the velocity will be there in comparison to fluid with less velocity gradient this means that the fluid is providing less viscous force so isn't the force should be inversely proportional to the velocity gradient
 
Like infinite force for a liquid that doesn't move ?
Nature tells us not: a bigger gradient means a bigger resistance
 
For a molecular explanation of how viscosity comes about physically with a velocity gradient, see Chapter 1 of Transport Phenomena by Bird, Stewart, and Lightfoot.
 
vanhees71 said:
Your question cannot be answered without mathematics since only with math one can explain what viscosity is. A very vague non-mathematical definition is that it is a transport coefficient that describes the dissipative transport of momentum.

Sir
Chestermiller said:
For a molecular explanation of how viscosity comes about physically with a velocity gradient, see Chapter 1 of Transport Phenomena by Bird, Stewart, and Lightfoot.

Sir but at a time how can I but a book
 
  • #10
BvU said:
Like infinite force for a liquid that doesn't move ?
Nature tells us not: a bigger gradient means a bigger resistance
Can you elaborate more
 
  • #11
Hemant said:
Sir

Sir but at a time how can I but a book
I don't understand what you are asking. Do you not have access to a library or are unable to order books from Amazon?
 
  • #12
Chestermiller said:
I don't understand what you are asking. Do you not have access to a library or are unable to order books from Amazon?
Sir I don't have enough time(as I am studying for competitive exam) to read a book for understand only fluid mechanics.
 
  • #13
Hemant said:
Sir I don't have enough time(as I am studying for competitive exam) to read a book for understand only fluid mechanics.
I didn't tell you to read the whole book. The information you want is in Chapter 1
 
  • #14
Chestermiller said:
I didn't tell you to read the whole book. The information you want is in Chapter 1
Sir I am in 11th standard,
So I want to know that if I read will be I be able to understand it with my level and also how much time will be needed to read this chapter.
 
  • #15
Hemant said:
I don't have enough time

So you would like us to spend our time typing in what can be easily found in a book? Exactly how much more valuable is your time than ours?

You got some very good advice in this thread. I think you should take it.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: vanhees71
  • #16
Vanadium 50 said:
So you would like us to spend our time typing in what can be easily found in a book? Exactly how much more valuable is your time than ours?

You got some very good advice in this thread. I think you should take it.

Sorry sir,
I don't meant to say what you have understood.

As sir said I have to read book(as per him I have to read a chapter) but I thought that for fluid mechanics I have to read full book but for students like me preparing for competitive exam have to cover these topics in short time (of about 15 days) in which we also have to do a lot objective question.
 
  • #17
You should read the chapter if you want to learn this. No matter how much time it takes.
 
  • #18
Vanadium 50 said:
You should read the chapter if you want to learn this. No matter how much time it takes.
Ok sir I will.
 
  • #19
You should not simply "read" physics books but work with them, i.e., as a first step you should sit down with pencil and paper and work out everything what's written in the text and derive everything such that you really understand it. Then you should do many problems. Last but not least, you should find some other students in your course to learn together and discuss the material. Don't do this just a few days before some exam. Exams are just to give you feedback on how well you really understood the material. The real goal should be to understand the science. As Peebles rightly said yesterday in the Nobel interview when asked for advice for young students: You should study science, because you are interested in it!
 
  • #20
vanhees71 said:
You should not simply "read" physics books but work with them, i.e., as a first step you should sit down with pencil and paper and work out everything what's written in the text and derive everything such that you really understand it. Then you should do many problems. Last but not least, you should find some other students in your course to learn together and discuss the material. Don't do this just a few days before some exam. Exams are just to give you feedback on how well you really understood the material. The real goal should be to understand the science. As Peebles rightly said yesterday in the Nobel interview when asked for advice for young students: You should study science, because you are interested in it!

Thanks sir
 

Similar threads

Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 62 ·
3
Replies
62
Views
4K
  • · Replies 40 ·
2
Replies
40
Views
4K
  • · Replies 39 ·
2
Replies
39
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 35 ·
2
Replies
35
Views
5K
  • · Replies 27 ·
Replies
27
Views
2K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
1K