How exactly does the electric force act?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of the electric force, particularly in the context of electrons in atomic structures. Participants explore the implications of force definitions, the behavior of electrons, and the relationship between force and acceleration.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how the electric force acts on electrons circulating around the nucleus, expressing confusion about the nature of this force.
  • Another participant emphasizes that electrons are always attracted to the nucleus but do not orbit in a classical sense, instead described by a wavefunction that indicates probability distributions.
  • Concerns are raised about the lack of acceleration despite the presence of force, with participants discussing the definitions of force and motion.
  • Some participants argue that the absence of acceleration does not imply the absence of force, suggesting that force can exist without resulting in motion under certain conditions.
  • A participant introduces the concept of accelerating charged particles in electric fields, providing an example from particle accelerators to illustrate how force can lead to acceleration.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between force, acceleration, and the behavior of electrons. There is no consensus on the interpretation of these concepts, and confusion remains regarding the definitions and implications of force in the context of quantum mechanics.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in classical definitions of force when applied to quantum particles like electrons, indicating a need for a nuanced understanding of these concepts at atomic and subatomic scales.

torxxx
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greeting

How exactly the electric force acts .The definition of force is In physics, a force is any interaction that, when unopposed, will change the motion of an object. as the electron circulates around the nucleus of the atom because of that I do not see how that force acts .
 
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Hi torxxx. Unfortunately I'm having a bit of difficulty understanding what you're asking. Can you elaborate a little more? Is there a specific concept with the electromagnetic force that you're confused about? (other than the case of an electron orbiting a nucleus. see below)

torxxx said:
as the electron circulates around the nucleus of the atom because of that I do not see how that force acts .

What is it about the behavior of an electron in its atomic orbital that confuses you with regard to the electromagnetic force?
 
Drakkith said:
Hi torxxx. Unfortunately I'm having a bit of difficulty understanding what you're asking. Can you elaborate a little more? Is there a specific concept with the electromagnetic force that you're confused about? (other than the case of an electron orbiting a nucleus. see below)
What is it about the behavior of an electron in its atomic orbital that confuses you with regard to the electromagnetic force?
force attract or repel objects electron who circulate around atomic nucleus is neither
repelled or attracted
 
torxxx said:
force attract or repel objects electron who circulate around atomic nucleus is neither
repelled or attracted

On the contrary, the electron is always attracted to the nucleus. The problem is that an electron does not orbit around the nucleus like a planet orbits a star. Fundamental particles like electrons cannot be described in "classical" terms at the atomic and subatomic scales. Instead, the electron is described by a wavefunction that, among other things, tells us the probability of finding the electron at some location. The electric force from the nucleus attracts the electron and is one of the primary things that influences its wavefunction.
 
I didn't understand this either. Perhaps if you used complete sentences it would be clearer.
 
Drakkith said:
On the contrary, the electron is always attracted to the nucleus. The problem is that an electron does not orbit around the nucleus like a planet orbits a star. Fundamental particles like electrons cannot be described in "classical" terms at the atomic and subatomic scales. Instead, the electron is described by a wavefunction that, among other things, tells us the probability of finding the electron at some location. The electric force from the nucleus attracts the electron and is one of the primary things that influences its wavefunction.
ok but where is acceleration
 
torxxx said:
ok but where is acceleration

It's not accelerating as far as I know.
 
Drakkith said:
It's not accelerating as far as I know.
I think that my confusion areas because of definition of force in force definition objects move because of the force and now why have force and why don't have acceleration
 
torxxx said:
I think that my confusion areas because of definition of force in force definition objects move because of the force and now why have force and why don't have acceleration
The bigger problem is that you do not even have position. An electron bound into an atom does not behave like a classical particle. It does not have a well defined position. Now, in what direction would this classical force be acting if the electron has no particular position in relation to the nucleus?
 
  • #10
torxxx said:
I think that my confusion areas because of definition of force in force definition objects move because of the force and now why have force and why don't have acceleration

Why aren't you moving downward into the ground under the force of gravity? By your definition, you don't have a force applied to you when you're not accelerating. However, that's not an accurate definition of force. Yes, force causes acceleration, but the lack of acceleration does not mean a lack of force.
 
  • #11
torxxx said:
I think that my confusion areas because of definition of force in force definition objects move because of the force and now why have force and why don't have acceleration

Hang on a second. How do you think we accelerate charge particles in particle accelerators?

Let's start with the SIMPLEST case. We have a uniform electric field E, and we place a charge particle q in that field. There will be a force acting on that charge particle due to the interaction of the charge with the external electric field. This force has the magnitude F = qE.

If the charge is free, then it will undergo an acceleration due to the presence of that force.

This was how the old CRT TV worked, and the basic principle of a DC electron gun!

Now, what was your question again?

Zz.
 

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