"How Fr=Ialpha Works in a Pulley w/ Mass

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of the equation Fr = Iα in the context of a pulley system with a mass attached. Participants are exploring the mechanics of how this equation relates to the forces and motion involved in such a system.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are attempting to clarify the roles of force, radius, moment of inertia, and angular acceleration in the equation. Questions are raised about how tension in the string relates to the forces acting on the pulley and the mass. Some participants discuss the implications of the pulley's inertia on the motion of the mass.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with various interpretations of the equation being explored. Some participants have provided insights into the relationship between linear and angular quantities, while others are questioning the assumptions regarding tension and the pulley's inertia. There is no explicit consensus yet, but several productive lines of reasoning have emerged.

Contextual Notes

Participants are operating under the assumption that the pulley is a solid disk and are considering the effects of inertia in their analysis. There is mention of the need to account for the difference in tension on either side of the pulley, which adds complexity to the problem.

JiggaMan
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Homework Statement


How does Fr=Ialpha work and how is it applied to a pulley with one mass attatched?

Homework Equations


F * r = I * alpha
I = moment of inertia

The Attempt at a Solution


I'm assuming F would be the tension of the pulley with the string. But how does that equation work? can someone explain the mechanics of it?
 
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F is the tangetial forice
r is the radius (in this case the radius of the pulley)
I is the moment of inertia (assume the pulley is a soild disk, so I = 1/2mr^2
alpha is the angular acceleration.
 
That equation is accounting for the fact that the pulley itself has inertia. Let's say you have a mass on a rope over a frictionless pulley (the bearing is frictionless, not the rope groove!) and you are holding one end of the rope. Nothing is moving, and nothing is accelerating, so it doesn't matter that the pulley has inertia. Now suppose you let go of the rope. Gravity pulling down on the mass starts to accelerate the mass. However it ALSO starts to accelerate the pulley. As long as the rope doesn't slip, the pulley speed has to match the acceleration of the bucket. The applied force is m g. If the acceleration of the mass is a, then the angular acceleration of the pulley must be α= a/r. That means that:

M g = M a + α I
=> Mg = Ma + a I / r
=> a = g / (1+ I / (M r))
Taking the pulley to be a solid disk
=> a = g / (1 + (m/(2M)) r)

So the larger the radius or the higher the mass the more the inertia of the pulley slows down the free falling mass. This is one example of how the inertia of the pulley is used. I hope that helps.
 
JiggaMan said:
I'm assuming F would be the tension of the pulley with the string.
In case it is not clear, in general, F would be the difference between the tensions on each side of the pulley.
 
JiggaMan said:
I'm assuming F would be the tension of the pulley with the string. But how does that equation work? can someone explain the mechanics of it?

F * r = I * alpha

F * r = Torque

so it's saying..
Torque = Moment of Inertia * Angular acceleration

Compare that to Newtons law for the linear case...
Force = Mass * Acceleration

Note that it's the Net Force or Net Torque that matters in the above. The net torque due to a belt on a pulley is equal to the difference in tension on each side of the pulley as Haruspex said.
 

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