How is possible that the magnetic field around electron is dipole but it's one circle

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the nature of the magnetic field associated with an electron, specifically addressing the apparent contradiction of it being described as a dipole while also being characterized as "one circle." Participants explore the implications of the electron's intrinsic spin and the relationship between rotating electric charges and magnetic dipole fields.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the clarity of the original inquiry, asking for more detail on what is meant by "one circle."
  • Another participant emphasizes that the electron is a point-like particle and discusses its intrinsic spin, which can be conceptualized as a magnetic dipole moment.
  • A later reply elaborates on how a rotating electric charge can generate a magnetic dipole field, referencing Maxwell's laws and providing mathematical expressions related to monopole and dipole fields.
  • The same participant presents detailed calculations and derivations related to the electric and magnetic fields generated by a rotating point charge, suggesting a mathematical equivalence to the electric dipole field.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing levels of understanding regarding the original question, and while some technical explanations are provided, there is no consensus on the interpretation of "one circle" or how it relates to the dipole nature of the magnetic field.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions regarding the definitions of terms like "circle" and "dipole" remain unresolved, and the mathematical steps presented may depend on specific interpretations of the underlying physics.

stmartin
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How is possible that the magnetic field around electron is dipole but it's one circle?


Best regards.

p.s thanks for the help.
 
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I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're asking. Perhaps more words would help, or maybe even a picture?
 
indeed, more words, please. "It's one circle" doesn't mean much to me. What is one circle? The electron? The electron is one circle? What does that even mean.

An electron is not a circle, it's a point-like particle. Also, the electron possesses an intrinsic spin of magnitude [tex]\hbar/2[/tex]and this spin can be thought of in some sense as a magnetic dipole with magnitude [tex]g \mu_B /2[/tex]. Where [tex]\hbar[/tex] is the reduced Planck Constant, [tex]\mu_B[/tex] is the Bohr magneton, and [tex]g[/tex] is a pure number approximately equal to 2 (it's actually a little bigger, closer to 2.002).
 
stmartin said:
How is possible that the magnetic field around electron is dipole but it's one circle?
Best regards. p.s thanks for the help.
The magnetic field around the electron associated with its spin is indeed
called a dipole moment. So your question is: How can a circular current
generate a dipole field.

The field of a rotating electric charge happens to be equal to the field of
a magnetic dipole. (two adjacent opposite magnetic charges: two monopoles)

This can be shown using Maxwell's laws:

[tex] \textsf{\textbf{E}}\ = -\textsf{grad}\ V - \frac{\partial <br /> \textbf{A}}{\partial t},\ \qquad \ \ \textsf{\textbf{B}}\ = <br /> \textsf{curl}\ \textbf{A} [/tex]
Monopole field

The electric point charge (monopole) is a delta function.

[tex]Q\ =\ \delta(r)[/tex]

It's potential field V is:

[tex]V\ =\ \frac{1}{r}[/tex]

It's electric field is is found by differentiating in x,y and z (gradient):

[tex] \textsf{E}_x\ = \frac{x}{r^3}, \quad <br /> \textsf{E}_y\ = \frac{y}{r^3}, \quad <br /> \textsf{E}_z\ = \frac{z}{r^3}[/tex]Dipole field

If we differentiate a delta function we get two adjacent and opposite
delta functions (a dipole)

[tex]Q\ =\ \frac{\partial}{\partial z}\ \delta(r)[/tex]

To obtain the dipole field we differentiate the monopole field in z as well:

[tex]V\ =\ <br /> \frac{\partial}{\partial z}\left(\frac{1}{r}\right)\ =\ <br /> \frac{z}{r^3}[/tex]

Which gives the electric potentials after differentiation in x, y and z:

[tex]\textsf{E}_x\ = \frac{3z}{r^5}x, \qquad \textsf{E}_y\ = <br /> \ \frac{3z}{r^5}y, \qquad \textsf{E}_z\ = \ \frac{3z}{r^5}z - \frac{1}{r^3}[/tex]


Rotating point charge field

This current gives rise to a magnetic vector potential A. The currents
in the x direction are given by a delta function differentiated in the y
direction, while the current in the y direction is give by a differentiation
in the x direction: Two orthogonal skews yield a rotation, like:

[tex] \partial_x - \partial_y \qquad = \qquad \uparrow\downarrow\ +\ \rightleftarrows \qquad = \qquad \circlearrowright[/tex]

So we have for the electric currents Jx, Jy and Jz:

[tex] J_x \ \ =\ -\frac{\partial}{\partial y}\ \delta(r), \qquad <br /> J_y \ \ =\ \frac{\partial}{\partial x}\ \delta(r), \qquad <br /> J_z\ =\ 0[/tex]

We obtain for the Vector Potential fields Ax, Ay and Az after
differentiating 1/r in the same way:

[tex] \qquad A_x\ =\ - <br /> \frac{y}{r^3}, \qquad A_y\ =\ <br /> \frac{x}{r^3}, \qquad A_z\ =\ 0[/tex]

To obtain the magnetic fields B we take the curl of the vector
potential A and we get:

[tex]\textsf{B}_x\ = \frac{3z}{r^5}x, \qquad \textsf{B}_y\ = <br /> \ \frac{3z}{r^5}y, \qquad \textsf{B}_z\ = \ \frac{3z}{r^5}z - \frac{1}{r^3}[/tex]

Which is mathematically equal to the electric dipole field.
Regards, Hans
 
Last edited:

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