How many degrees of freedom does a swan's neck have

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the degrees of freedom of a swan's neck, exploring theoretical and practical modeling approaches. Participants consider various models and their implications for understanding the neck's movement.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether the discussion should focus on maximum theoretical degrees of freedom or minimum realistic modeling requirements.
  • One participant suggests modeling the swan's neck as having infinitely many degrees of freedom, while others challenge this notion, arguing it is a poor choice.
  • There is a call for clarification from the original poster regarding their goals in discussing the degrees of freedom.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the number of degrees of freedom is likely determined by the movements of the vertebrae in the neck, although they do not provide specific details about the anatomy.
  • One participant expresses a fundamental dislike for models that incorporate too many degrees of freedom, suggesting a preference for more practical approaches.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the appropriate model for the swan's neck or the number of degrees of freedom it possesses. Multiple competing views remain regarding the modeling approach and its implications.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of specific anatomical details about the swan's neck and the dependence on the chosen model for determining degrees of freedom. The discussion also highlights unresolved assumptions about what constitutes a practical model.

mani m
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how many degrees of freedom swan's neck have
 
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how many degrees of freedom does a wire have? infinitely many
 
I think it is far fewer than that.
mani m said:
how many degrees of freedom swan's neck have
Are you interested in the maximum theoretical degrees of freedom, or the minimum degrees of freedom to realistically model it?
 
Dale said:
I think it is far fewer than that.
depends on model you choose. The model should be determined explicitly in the statement of the problem. I model the neck as infinitely many degrees of freedom system.
 
zwierz said:
depends on model you choose. The model should be determined explicitly in the statement of the problem. I model the neck as infinitely many degrees of freedom system.
Seems like a bad choice to me. It doesn't have infinite degrees of freedom, and I cannot think of a practical reason to model it with more degrees of freedom than it has.

I have a fundamental dislike of models with too many degrees of freedom
 
Dale said:
Seems like a bad choice to me.
ok let's invite zoologist to explain us how swan's spine is organized
 
Or at least wait for the OP to clarify their goal as I asked in post 3.
 
Dale said:
I cannot think of a practical reason to model it with more degrees of freedom than it has.

I have a fundamental dislike of models with too many degrees of freedom
What do you prefer: to consider the ideal gas by means of Euler equation which implies infinitely many degrees of freedom or to consider it as a Hamiltonian system of particles with billions degrees of freedom?
 
A swan's neck isn't a gas.
 
Last edited:
  • #10
A swan's neck is composed of a number of vertebrae that can move about, so the number of degrees of freedom will be based almost completely off of the possible motions of the bones. How many neck bones a swan has and how exactly they move I don't know. I leave that to the OP to find out.
 

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