How many elements are in a set of unique rational numbers from 1 to 9?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around counting the number of unique rational numbers that can be formed using the integers from 1 to 9 as numerators and denominators. Participants explore whether there is a more efficient or elegant method to determine the size of this set, while also considering the implications of eliminating repeated values.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant defines the set of rational numbers as ##T = \{ \frac{n}{m}\in \mathbb{Q} \vert n, m \in \{ 1, 2, ..., 9 \} \}## and notes that no values can repeat, providing examples of repetitions.
  • Another participant questions the clarity of the initial question regarding the counting method.
  • A later reply clarifies that the main inquiry is about finding a simpler counting method for the elements in the set.
  • One participant expresses skepticism about the existence of a more elegant counting method, stating they cannot think of one.
  • Another participant proposes an alternative approach that involves prime factorization and subsets of primes, suggesting it may offer a faster counting method for larger sets, although it may be slower for the specific case of ##T_9##.
  • One participant reiterates the initial question and expresses doubt about finding a simpler method, leaving open the possibility of discovering one.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the existence of a simpler counting method. While some express doubt about its possibility, others propose alternative approaches without agreement on their effectiveness.

Contextual Notes

Participants discuss the implications of eliminating repeated values and the complexity of counting unique rational numbers, but do not resolve the mathematical steps involved in their proposed methods.

Born
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Let ##T = \{ \frac{n}{m}\in \mathbb{Q} \vert n, m \in \{ 1, 2, ..., 9 \} \}##

No values can repeat (e.g. ##\frac{2}{2},\frac{3}{3},...##)

How many elements does the set have. I could just go ahead and count the elements and eliminate the repeats, but I'm wondering if there is a simpler (and more elegant) way to do it?

Thanks
 
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Born said:
Let ##T = \{ \frac{n}{m}\in \mathbb{Q} \vert n, m \in \{ 1, 2, ..., 9 \} \}##

No values can repeat (e.g. ##\frac{2}{2},frac{3}{3},...##

What is the question?
 
Sorry, edited the mistake. The question would be; is there a simpler (and more elegant) way to count the number of elements in the set?
 
I don't believe there is a more elegant way. At least I can't think of one.
 
I think this way is more "elegant", but is probably a slower way of counting elements in ##T_9##. I think this does provide a faster way of counting ##T_k = \left\{\dfrac{n}{m}: \enspace n,m\in\{1,...,k\}\right\}## for larger ##k\in \mathbb N##.

Let ##P=\{2,3,5,7\}##, the set of primes that divide ##9##. For each ##D\subseteq P##, let ##M_D## denote the set of numbers whose prime factorization has positive exponents for exactly the primes ##D##. Let ##\mathcal D = \{(D,E): \enspace D,E\subseteq P, \enspace D\cap E=\emptyset\}##.

Then ##T_9 = \bigcup_{(D,E)\in \mathcal D} \left\{ \dfrac{n}{m}: \enspace n\in M_D, m\in M_E \right\}##, and the last expression has no repetition anywhere.
 
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Born said:
Let ##T = \{ \frac{n}{m}\in \mathbb{Q} \vert n, m \in \{ 1, 2, ..., 9 \} \}##

No values can repeat (e.g. ##\frac{2}{2},\frac{3}{3},...##)

How many elements does the set have. I could just go ahead and count the elements and eliminate the repeats, but I'm wondering if there is a simpler (and more elegant) way to do it?

Thanks

I don't think there is as simpler way, but you never know...
 

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