How reliable are university rankings?

[Grands]

et when you take the class these people will supposedly teach

The Nobel winners?
But there are very few Nobel winners that teach...

below the top 10 or so

The problem is that in Italy all the universities are below top 170...

 

[WWGD]

The Nobel winners?
But there are very few Nobel winners that teach...The problem is that in Italy all the universities are below top 170...

I mean , some schools will advertise the fact that they have the Nobelists and people will assume they will teach. Same for famous researchers. Large classes will be taught by TAs ( teaching assistants). Are you intending to come to the U.S? Are you applying for undergraduate or masters/PHD?

 

[Grands]

Large classes will be taught by TAs ( teaching assistants).

Also at Harvard?

Are you intending to come to the U.S? Are you applying for undergraduate or masters/PHD?

Maybe only for the master degree, hoping to win a scholarship.

 

[Meir Achuz]

The thesis adviser is more important than the University. Make sure you go to a university where you will be in the upper half. Then you will be recognized and accepted by a good adviser. Go to a university that has a good group in the field you're interested in. That is more important than the overall ranking of the University.

 

[WWGD]

The thesis adviser is more important than the University. Make sure you go to a university where you will be in the upper half. Then you will be recognized and accepted by a good adviser. Go to a university that has a good group in the field you're interested in. That is more important than the overall ranking of the University.

Good points. Also, if S/he can , to the degree possible, for a school where S/he will be a good fit: do you prefer large schools or smaller ones? Urban/rural? Liberal/Conservative? etc. Being in an environment where you feel at ease gives you an extra edge in your work.

 

[Grands]

This is wrong.

Re-read my posting. I did not mention being a student in Germany. I said tech startups in Berlin. I know someone doing exactly this right now. He's technically from a german speaking country, but has been abroad so much that his german is terrible. If you are doing tech in Berlin, he says 'you can do everything in english'. Knowing german helps a bit for socialzing / networking, but is not required.

If you want to venture out from home, you're going to need to try different things and take a few risks. There are few guarantees here.

So do you study in Germany?
I heard that there university are free, no taxes.
Beside this, it is true that there are lots of startup in the tech sector?
Which kind of tech?
I know that Germany has one of the greatest industries in the world, and brands like Bosch, Audi, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, etc... but I know nothing about IT in Germany.

My question is- who cares? Go to a school that fits your interests. Nitpicking over if a school should be ranked 6th or 5th is a waste of time.

The question is not choosing between the 5th or the 6th university, but between the 200th or 450th or 860th.

 

[WWGD]

So do you study in Germany?

The question is not choosing between the 5th or the 6th university, but between the 200th or 450th or 860th.

I think the point is that what matters most at this point is you doing research in an area that interests you with someone capable over the ranking of the school.

 

[Grands]

Make sure you go to a university where you will be in the upper half.

Upper half of which ranking?

Good points. Also, if S/he can , to the degree possible, for a school where S/he will be a good fit: do you prefer large schools or smaller ones? Urban/rural? Liberal/Conservative? etc. Being in an environment where you feel at ease gives you an extra edge in your work.

Really ?
I always thought that, but I never realized that is so true.
I prefer urban, liberal, and large, unfortunately I live next to universities that doesn't have this characteristics.

 

[Grands]

I think the point is that what matters most at this point is you doing research in an area that interests you with someone capable over the ranking of the school.

I tried but a lots of italian people due to the fact that they don't want to recognize that their university is not one of the best ones, prefer to lay and say " all universities all the same".

 

[WWGD]

I tried but a lots of italian people due to the fact that they don't want to recognize that their university is not one of the best ones, prefer to lay and say " all universities all the same".

I don't know others, but this post is getting a bit confusing for me. Could you please give your overall" coordinates" more clearly? Are you aiming for a (undergraduate/graduate) degree in ( academic area, narrowed down for a masters/PHD ) , in the ( geographical region) , you have/don't have funding beyond (amount) , etc. It would, I believe, help us all understand better your situation so we can help you better.

 

[StoneTemplePython]

So do you study in Germany?
I heard that there university are free, no taxes.
Beside this, it is true that there are lots of startup in the tech sector?
Which kind of tech?
I know that Germany has one of the greatest industries in the world, and brands like Bosch, Audi, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, etc... but I know nothing about IT in Germany.The question is not choosing between the 5th or the 6th university, but between the 200th or 450th or 860th.

This thread is quite expansive...

at one point in here or the merged thread you expressed interest in better job prospects than working in Italy, which has a troubled economy esp. for young people. My comments were geared toward considering Berlin to work in tech -- things like web development, some data science stuff, creating apps etc. London is a much bigger market but is much 'farther' away with Brexit looming. Berlin is still a very cool town and probably as good as you can find for startups in continental Europe.

In this thread or maybe a different one, you've asked questions about computing. In my view the only way to figure out whether you like coding is to do a lot of it for a 6, maybe 12 months. It will take a lot of hard work and be quite difficult at times. Even if you end up wanting to do something with hardware or physics or whatever, having a strong background in coding is extremely helpful (and maybe a requirement).

Elsewhere on the forums I've said this before: consider taking the MITx sequence of computer science and coding course on edx. The first one is here: https://www.edx.org/course/introduction-computer-science-mitx-6-00-1x-11

I am highly partial to the materials that MIT puts out online. However, a lot of people also like Harvard's intro to CS.
https://www.edx.org/course/introduction-computer-science-harvardx-cs50x

These online courses are free and very high quality. You will have to put in the work though -- there aren't any shortcuts for getting up the programming learning curve.

Getting up to speed on programming will keep a lot of options open for you from a skill perspective, and crucially give you an indication of whether you enjoy programming. Trying to masterplan your future before doing that seems to be a bit backward to me -- as they say its like putting the cart in front of the horse.

 

[Grands]

I don't know others, but this post is getting a bit confusing for me. Could you please give your overall" coordinates" more clearly? Are you aiming for a (undergraduate/graduate) degree in ( academic area, narrowed down for a masters/PHD ) , in the ( geographical region) , you have/don't have funding beyond (amount) , etc. It would, I believe, help us all understand better your situation so we can help you better.

My question was a general question.
It's not about what I have to do, but about how importante is the prestige of the collage for someone who is very ambitious and was to have the best possibile carrier.

Anyway, I'm aiming for a undergraduate degree, and I live in Italy.

 

[Grands]

which has a troubled economy esp. for young people.

How do you know that man?

London is a much bigger market but is much 'farther' away with Brexit looming.

I completely agree.

In this thread or maybe a different one, you've asked questions about computing. In my view the only way to figure out whether you like coding is to do a lot of it for a 6, maybe 12 months. It will take a lot of hard work and be quite difficult at times. Even if you end up wanting to do something with hardware or physics or whatever, having a strong background in coding is extremely helpful (and maybe a requirement).

Yes, in another one, I don't want to swift the focus of this thread, it will be better to send this part of the message in private or in the other thread.

Even if you end up wanting to do something with hardware or physics or whatever, having a strong background in coding is extremely helpful (and maybe a requirement).

Is so sad that in Italy we don't have a culture about coding.

Getting up to speed on programming will keep a lot of options open for you from a skill perspective, and crucially give you an indication of whether you enjoy programming. Trying to masterplan your future before doing that seems to be a bit backward to me -- as they say its like putting the cart in front of the horse.

Do you mean that coding will be important for every kind of job I will do in my future?

 

[StoneTemplePython]

How do you know that man?

see your post #26 here https://www.physicsforums.com/threa...-ways-to-make-some-money-online.931122/page-2

I think your post was a bit hyperbolic, (e.g. step outside Europe) but I'm familiar with the gist of what you are saying because I read The Economist.

Do you mean that coding will be important for every kind of job I will do in my future?

'every' is too strong a word as the world in big and complicated. But most anything technical, yes. It can and should open up a lot of doors for you.

There's an old saying about all roads lead through Rome or something like that. It overstates things a bit but at a time Rome was central to many many things. I'm tempted to say that all paths start with coding. It's too strong a statement but still seems worth thinking about. Good luck.

 

[WWGD]

A

see your post #26 here https://www.physicsforums.com/threa...-ways-to-make-some-money-online.931122/page-2

I think your post was a bit hyperbolic, (e.g. step outside Europe) but I'm familiar with the gist of what you are saying because I read The Economist.

'every' is too strong a word as the world in big and complicated. But most anything technical, yes. It can and should open up a lot of doors for you.

There's an old saying about all roads lead through Rome or something like that. It overstates things a bit but at a time Rome was central to many many things. I'm tempted to say that all paths start with coding. It's too strong a statement but still seems worth thinking about. Good luck.

And Python --StoneTemple $^{TM}$ ;) or Regular Flavor -- allows you to see results quickly, which can help keep you motivated.

 

[StoneTemplePython]

A

And Python --StoneTemple $^{TM}$ ;) or Regular Flavor -- allows you to see results quickly, which can help keep you motivated.

Haha, when OP was asking about studying at universities in Germany, I thought, well: What Would Gauss Do? University of Goettingen seems alright.

 

[Grands]

Ok guys, thanks for the help, but could you post this message in the other thread next time?
Just because I didn't have enough answers about how much great companies cares about the university that people made.

 

[Grands]

Dr.Courtney said that one day I will have to compete to other people's CV on the pile, so this make me to suppose that is better to do in the best possibile university, it is?
My issue is that I don't what to spend more money in doing a university that far away from me and will make me invest so much money without having no advantages.

 

[jtbell]

The thesis adviser is more important than the University.

This advice is relevant for graduate school; the OP is currently looking for a university for his bachelor's degree, if I remember correctly.

If he eventually finishes a Ph.D., few people looking to hire him will care where he did his bachelor's.

 

[Grands]

This advice is relevant for graduate school; the OP is currently looking for a university for his bachelor's degree, if I remember correctly.

That's correct.

 

[Dr. Courtney]

The Nobel winners?
But there are very few Nobel winners that teach...

The Nobel Laureates in Physics with faculty positions still tend to be active in teaching. Carl Wieman, for example, not only continued teaching, but published many paper in The Physics Teacher:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Wieman
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,11&q=Carl+Wieman+the+physics+teacher&btnG=

Wolfgang Ketterle also continues to be actively engaged in teaching.

Teaching duties at R1 universities tend to be light, often only 1-2 classes a year. This may explain the rare occurrence of students having classes with Nobel Laureates.

When I was at MIT, I never felt disappointed about the inability to get into classes taught by the profs I regarded as true luminaries. Of course, I had to find out what courses they were teaching and sign up for them: Alan Guth, Jeffry Goldstone, Barton Zwiebach, Michel Baranger, Michael Feld, David Pritchard, Dan Kleppner, etc., etc. I was not in a single course taught by a TA. (TAs had mostly grading duties and some duties as instructors of introductory laboratories.) LIkewise, as an undergrad at LSU, all the physics classes I took were taught by tenured faculty who were prominent in their fields. One freshman physics lab was delivered by a well-qualified graduate student under the close and watchful guidance of the tenured professor who taught the lecture portion of the intro course. I never felt short shrift.

(Admittedly, some of the students we mentor are having less satisfying experiences at highly esteemed universities. If there is a trend, it is a trend toward lower quality in the large lectures with hundreds of students. Students in courses with smaller class sizes tend to report more positive experiences.)

 

[Grands]

@Dr. Courtney Thanks for the message, in Italy we tend to show the respect for the people, we have a polite form that is called "dare del lei" that in english doesn't exist, so I can't use it.
When I was talking about the still living Nobel Price that teach I forgot to say that in Italy we have no Nobel price alive, maybe you know about Fermi or Giulio Natta.

Students in courses with smaller class sizes tend to report more positive experiences.)

I get it, the fanny thing is that in Italy very few people go to the university, only 20% of the population have a degree, and very few people choose Physics or Math.
What I want to say is that classes of Physics or Math are always very small, at least 12 student, as you may think, there is no admittance test, because there is no need, since the students are very few.

Anyway, my question is about investing more money to do a university that has a better position in the international ranking, going to one that is 180th instead of 400th or 850th.

Thanks.

 

[Grands]

I mean , some schools will advertise the fact that they have the Nobelists and people will assume they will teach. Same for famous researchers. Large classes will be taught by TAs ( teaching assistants). Are you intending to come to the U.S? Are you applying for undergraduate or masters/PHD

I'm not intended to come in the US for the undergraduate degree, maybe for the mater degree of for the PhD, if I will do it.

The thesis adviser is more important than the University. Make sure you go to a university where you will be in the upper half. Then you will be recognized and accepted by a good adviser. Go to a university that has a good group in the field you're interested in. That is more important than the overall ranking of the University.

Ok but how do I know if a university has a good group of teacher ?
100% of them are unknown, I means, I just can see them curriculum vitae, but I can't understand from it if they are good teachers.

Make sure you go to a university where you will be in the upper half

Upper half of the total ranking?
I can't know if a university has a good group of people, I means, how can I discover this?

 

[WWGD]

I'm not intended to come in the US for the undergraduate degree, maybe for the mater degree of for the PhD, if I will do it.Ok but how do I know if a university has a good group of teacher ?
100% of them are unknown, I means, I just can see them curriculum vitae, but I can't understand from it if they are good teachers.Upper half of the total ranking?
I can't know if a university has a good group of people, I means, how can I discover this?

Don't you have websites like "Rate your professor" http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/
in Italy? Otherwise, if, as you say, there are a few students, just-about any professor will be happy to help someone
as enthusiastic as yourself. I don't think it really matters that much at your level, given the situation as you describe it.

 

[Grands]

Don't you have websites like "Rate your professor" http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/
in Italy? Otherwise, if, as you say, there are a few students, just-about any professor will be happy to help someone
as enthusiastic as yourself. I don't think it really matters that much at your level, given the situation as you describe it.

This are italian teachers https://www.quicosenza.it/news/wp-c...6483261109251_roma-protesta-dei-docenti-p.jpg

This year they blocked exams in university, so students couldn't took them http://www.lastampa.it/2017/08/28/e...-september-A6uROBiQmgPHjyxnuSB2FL/pagina.html.

So many people didn't graduated in time for this reason.
You can image that they are agains't this kind of rating like ratemyprofessor, because they thing that they cannot be criticized.

 

[gmax137]

Upper half of which ranking? ...

Not to speak for Clem but I'm sure he meant, a school where you will be in the upper half of the students at that school.

 

[Grands]

What means be in the upper half?
Have great marks?

 

[Grands]

Here guys I found the ranking that wikipedia gives to the italian universities https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_universities_in_Italy.
At the end of the page you can see them.

In this case do you suggest me to join a university that is on the top of those rankings ?

Thanks.

 

[symbolipoint]

Choose Computer Science or Engineering, choose a school, earn your degree, and get a job!

 

[WWGD]

Choose Computer Science or Engineering, choose a school, earn your degree, and get a job!

Like Symbolipoint says. At this level of undergraduate , it does not really matter that much. Apply yourself, find an area of interest while you do your studies and then look for someone doing research in that area.

 

[f95toli]

In this case do you suggest me to join a university that is on the top of those rankings ?

Thanks.

No, rankings of this type are completely useless when choosing where to do your undergraduate degree. There are many reasons for this, but the two most obvious is that rankings are (usually) based on research output and say very little about e.g. the quality of the teachers. Secondly, the quality also varies (sometimes a lot) between different subjects; some universities are e.g. good for say languages or medicine but not so great for science (and vice versa).
MIT is considered to be a great university; but it wouldn't be your first choice you say wanted to study medieval Spanish music.

 

[WWGD]

No, rankings of this type are completely useless when choosing where to do your undergraduate degree. There are many reasons for this, but the two most obvious is that rankings are (usually) based on research output and say very little about e.g. the quality of the teachers. Secondly, the quality also varies (sometimes a lot) between different subjects; some universities are e.g. good for say languages or medicine but not so great for science (and vice versa).
MIT is considered to be a great university; but it wouldn't be your first choice you say wanted to study medieval Spanish music.

I agree here; the cost-benefit analysis ( cost being mostly the high tuition) does not bear it out at this level.

 

[Grands]

Secondly, the quality also varies (sometimes a lot) between different subjects; some universities are e.g. good for say languages or medicine but not so great for science (and vice versa).
MIT is considered to be a great university; but it wouldn't be your first choice you say wanted to study medieval Spanish music.

In general the general ranking respect the ranking of the subject.

If you pick a subject like physics or engineering you will see that a university that is 180% can have this subjects at least in the 180th position, in my case the Polytechnic has the courses of engineering on the top 50 of the world, if we watch only that the specific subjects ( mechanical, electrical, electronic, biomedical etc..).

If you choose a university that is 450th you can see that the rating by subject it's similar, can be in a range between 350th and 450th.

I agree here; the cost-benefit analysis ( cost being mostly the high tuition) does not bear it out at this level.

In italy the university has the same tuition fees, from North to South italy, because are all public.

 

[symbolipoint]

In general the general ranking respect the ranking of the subject.

If you pick a subject like physics or engineering you will see that a university that is 180% can have this subjects at least in the 180th position, in my case the Polytechnic has the courses of engineering on the top 50 of the world, if we watch only that the specific subjects ( mechanical, electrical, electronic, biomedical etc..).

If you choose a university that is 450th you can see that the rating by subject it's similar, can be in a range between 350th and 450th.

No clear main idea; completely obscure meaning.

In italy the university has the same tuition fees, from North to South italy, because are all public.

Good. Not very many worries about funding.
Choose Computer Science or Engineering, choose a school, earn your degree, and get a job!

 

[Grands]

No clear main idea; completely obscure meaning.

@f95toli said that it doesn't mind the general ranking, all that matter is the ranking by the subject.

Well, if you look at the subject of each university you will see that this subject ( that can be Physics, Chemistry, Mechanical engineering, electrical engineering) in the "ranking by subject" has a position that reflect the position of the university in the general ranking.

For example one of the three Polytechnic of Italy is in the top 180 universities.
If you watch at the ranking of one subject of this university, you will see that this is in a good position, and must be in the top 180th position, in particular mechanical engineering is on the 28th position.

If you pick a university that is 400th in the general ranking, you can see that the subject of that university are between the 350th and the 450th position in the "ranking by subjects"