How to Calculate Mass Flow in a Torus Due to Temperature Differences?

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    Convection Movement
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating mass flow in a torus due to temperature differences, specifically considering scenarios involving convection. Participants explore various assumptions regarding the torus's structure and contents, including whether it is solid or hollow and what type of fluid, if any, it contains.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that if the torus is made of solid material, there would be no mass flow, only heat flow via conduction.
  • Others question the nature of the mass flow mentioned in the original post (OP), noting the lack of specification about whether the torus is hollow or filled with a fluid.
  • Participants raise various questions about the characteristics of the torus, such as its thickness, whether it is an insulator or conductor, and the state of the fluid inside (liquid or gas).
  • One participant expresses a desire for a general answer while also being open to specific cases involving different fluids or materials.
  • A later reply mentions the interest in determining the maximum Carnot efficiency of a hypothetical engine based on convective movement, suggesting ideal conditions for analysis.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the specifics of the torus or the nature of the mass flow. Multiple competing views and uncertainties remain regarding the assumptions necessary for analysis.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in the OP's initial question, particularly the lack of detail regarding the torus's structure and contents, which affects the ability to provide a clear answer.

zoteman94
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Calculating convection movement.

Is there a simple way of calculating the mass flow inside a torus as a result of a difference in temperature.
Asuming the torus is placed vertically and the heat source and sink placed in this way.
Thank you very much.

Cold side
( o )
Hot Side
 
Last edited:
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If your torus is made of solid material there would be no mass flow, just heat flow via conduction.
 
256bits said:
If your torus is made of solid material there would be no mass flow, just heat flow via conduction.

How could that involve the "mass flow" in the OP?
 
sophiecentaur said:
How could that involve the "mass flow" in the OP?

Mass flow of what?
OP did not specify if the torus is hollow and filled with fluid and of what type.
Is it a thin or thick shell torus?
Is the shell an insulator or a conductor of heat?
Is the torus completely filled with a liquid fluid? or gaseous?
Is a percentage of the volume of a hollow torus liquid and the rest vapour?
if so, does the temperature of the liquid reach boiling.
If so, will the cooling surface result in condensation of the fluid.
Etc

I choose the simplest case possible because i am basically lazy.
 
256bits said:
OP did not specify if the torus is hollow and filled with fluid and of what type.

I choose the simplest case possible because i am basically lazy.

It was the way I took it, from the start. It was the only way which could elicit any sensible response at all. I think you were just a bit scratchy about it, to be honest. Don't we actually expect some sloppily thought out questions on PF? Half the problem can be stating the question in the best way.
You say you are lazy. I am certainly too lazy to try to work out a solution to the problem the OP was getting at. Far too hard and with far too many variables. But there would be solutions out there somewhere.
 
Yes, Sophiecentaur. Analysis of a problem and determination of conditions under which certain variables are important and others can be neglected can be the most difficult part of the process.
If the OP defines his scenario with some more detail it would not hurt to do so.
 
Ok ok people, yes, it's a hollow torus. I didn't specify thickness or fluid inside because I was looking for a general answer, however if you have any data for specific cases (e.g. water fluid, air, anything or specific thickness or material of the torus (maybe an ideal heat insulator)) I would like it too.
Thanks again.
 
Last edited:
Well, I just want to know the maximum Carnot efficiency an hypothetical engine running on convective movement, so ideal conditions can be assumed.
 

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