How to calculate the energy of an arbitrary pulse

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the energy of an arbitrary AC pulse, with participants exploring methods for integrating power and addressing uncertainties related to average power calculations. The scope includes theoretical considerations and practical applications using numerical integration techniques.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that to calculate energy, one must integrate power, but expresses uncertainty about handling arbitrary AC.
  • Another participant confirms that energy can be calculated by integrating voltage times current, but notes the need for specificity regarding DC components or average AC at the fundamental frequency.
  • A third participant mentions that the integral for a sine wave is easier to compute, implying that numerical integration could be challenging for arbitrary shapes.
  • A participant raises a conceptual question about the integration of a pure sine wave, stating that it would yield zero energy due to cancellation of positive and negative areas, and questions whether the wave must be offset or calculated using absolute values.
  • Another participant responds by affirming the use of absolute values, referring to this process as rectification.
  • Further discussion clarifies that if both voltage and current are in-phase sine waves, the product of voltage and current will yield a non-zero average, despite the individual averages being zero.
  • A participant inquires about the integration of Rogowski coil output, seeking guidance on whether to continue in the same thread or start a new one.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of integrating sine waves and the necessity of using absolute values for energy calculations. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to handle arbitrary AC waveforms and the specifics of numerical integration.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention the use of numerical integration and the potential challenges associated with integrating arbitrary waveforms, highlighting the need for clarity on definitions and assumptions related to power and energy calculations.

Abimbola1987
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Dear Sirs,

I need to calculate the energy of the below pulse, as I'm new to dealing with AC I have some doubts on how to calculate it? I think I remember that in order to obtain energy one has to integrate the power, but I'm not sure.

Also I'm not sure how to deal with the calculation of average power as it is arbitrary AC?

results.png


ps. the power trace is calculated not measured.

Thank you in advance.
 

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Yes, just integrate voltage times current.

But you may want just the DC component, or the average AC at the fundamental frequency. If so, you must be more specific.
 
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+1

It's the same as it would be for a sin wave AC, it's just that the integral (area under the curve) is easier to work out for a sin wave.

If really stuck with the integral you can even use squared paper to work it out!
 
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Dear anorlunda and CWatters,

Thank you very much for your reply. I do have the data for the wave forms so I have written a small Python script to do the numerical integration.

For the purpose of my understanding; if the wave had a pure sine and you did numerical integration on that, it would equal zero as the negative areas would cancel out the positive, which would imply that the energy is zero? I which case my logic would dictate that the wave had to be offset in some way or have to be calculated with absolute values of y? The same conceptual pondering goes for average power, power is still power even if it's negative?
 
Yes the absolute value. Aka rectification.
 
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Dear CWatters,

Thank you very much for clearing my uncertainty.

I wish you all the best.
Abimbola
 
Abimbola1987 said:
For the purpose of my understanding; if the wave had a pure sine and you did numerical integration on that, it would equal zero as the negative areas would cancel out the positive,

Which wave?

If V and I are both sin waves and in-phase with each other, then when they are +, V*I is +. When they are both -, V*I is + again. So the average of V is zero, the average of I is zero but the average of V*I is not zero.
 
anorlunda said:
Which wave?

I meant an imaginary sine wave e.g. the voltage of 220V AC

anorlunda said:
If V and I are both sin waves and in-phase with each other, then when they are +, V*I is +. When they are both -, V*I is + again. So the average of V is zero, the average of I is zero but the average of V*I is not zero.

Yes, I appreciate that, it seems logical.

Now that I have your attention, could I ask another question regarding integration of Rogowski coil output? Or should I create another post?
 
Abimbola1987 said:
Now that I have your attention, could I ask another question regarding integration of Rogowski coil output? Or should I create another post?

A new thread would be better.
 

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