Group delay with Gaussian pulse

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the propagation of a Gaussian waveform in a dispersive medium, specifically focusing on deriving an expression for the waveform at a generic time t when dispersion is significant. Participants explore the mathematical framework, including Fourier transforms and dispersion relations, while seeking clarity on the evolution of the pulse and its characteristics over time.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Emily presents a Gaussian pulse and its Fourier transform, seeking assistance in deriving the expression for G(x,t) that accounts for dispersion.
  • Some participants suggest that neglecting higher derivatives of the dispersion relation is an approximation and recommend considering the second order for improved accuracy.
  • There is mention of historical papers by Sommerfeld and Brillouin that address the topic of dispersion, indicating a need for exact expressions in certain cases.
  • Emily expresses confusion regarding the derivation of a Schrödinger equation related to the amplitude of the harmonic wave, referencing a specific equation from a document.
  • Another participant confirms the substitution process in the equations discussed but also struggles with understanding the connection to the Schrödinger equation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the importance of considering higher-order derivatives in the dispersion relation, but there remains uncertainty regarding the derivation of specific equations and their implications. The discussion is not resolved, as participants continue to seek clarity on the mathematical steps involved.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential missing assumptions regarding the dispersion relation and the specific conditions under which the Gaussian pulse is analyzed. The discussion also highlights unresolved mathematical steps related to the derivation of the Schrödinger equation.

EmilyRuck
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Hello!
Starting from a gaussian waveform propagating in a dispersive medium, is it possible to obtain an expression for the waveform at a generic time t, when the dispersion is not negligible?

I know that a generic gaussian pulse (considered as an envelope of a carrier at frequency k_c) can be expressed for t = 0 as

g(x) = e^{ - \frac{1}{2} \left( \frac{x - x_0}{\sigma_x} \right)^2} e^{i k_c (x - x_0)}

and its Fourier transform is

G(k) = \displaystyle \frac{\sigma_x}{\sqrt{2 \pi}} e^{- \frac{(k - k_c)^2 \sigma_x^2}{2}} e^{-i (k - k_c)x_0}

Then, the pulse at a generic time t can be obtained as

G(x,t) = \displaystyle \int_{-\infty}^{+\infty} G(k) e^{i(kx - \omega(k) t)} dk

with \omega(k) = \omega(k_c) + (k - k_c) \displaystyle \left. \frac{d \omega}{dk} \right|_{k = k_c} + (k - k_c)^2 \left. \frac{d^2 \omega}{dk^2} \right|_{k = k_c}.

The first derivative is known as the group velocity. Note that the second derivative is considered too.

I don't know how to proceed in order to obtain an explicit form for G(x,t) which can show its evolution during time, showing the velocity of propagation of the pulse and its possible broadening. With a simple substitution of \omega(k) and solution of the integral I did not get such an explicit form. Is there anyone who can help, or anyone who does know a site/document dealing with this topic?
Thank you anyway,

Emily
 
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To neglect the 2nd higher derivatives of the dispersion relation is, of course, only an approximation. You can improve by keeping the 2nd order. Going beyond usually leads to cases, which cannot be integrated analytically anymore. See, e.g.,

http://nptel.ac.in/courses/112105165/lec8.pdf

Sometimes, it's necessary to consider the exact expression, e.g., in the interesting case of anomalous dispersion. There are famous historical papers on the subject by Sommerfeld and Brillouin. For a good introduction, see Sommerfeld, Lectures on theoretical physics, vol. 4 (Optics).
 
vanhees71 said:
To neglect the 2nd higher derivatives of the dispersion relation is, of course, only an approximation.

Yes, of course, in fact in my post I wrote the 2nd derivative has to be considered.

vanhees71 said:
You can improve by keeping the 2nd order. Going beyond usually leads to cases, which cannot be integrated analytically anymore.

Ok, I understand.

vanhees71 said:

Thank you. Did you follow the whole procedure? I can't get how he obtains a Schrödinger equation describing the amplitude of the (8.7) (page 5).

vanhees71 said:
Sometimes, it's necessary to consider the exact expression, e.g., in the interesting case of anomalous dispersion. There are famous historical papers on the subject by Sommerfeld and Brillouin. For a good introduction, see Sommerfeld, Lectures on theoretical physics, vol. 4 (Optics).

Thanks for this one too.

Emily
 
Concernig Eq. (8.5), isn't this just the substitution ##k=k_0+\xi## in (8.4) and then cancelling the factor ##\exp(\mathrm{i} k_0 x)## on both sides of the equations?
 
Yes, of course it is (as explained in the document): this is straightforward. Anyway I can't get how "the evolution of the amplitude A(x,t) of the harmonic wave e^{i (k_0 x - \omega (k_0) t)} in (8.7) is governed by the" Schrödinger equation (page 5).
 

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