How to convert transfer function to state space

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around converting a specific transfer function, H(s)=(s^2+27s+50)/(2s^2+27s+50), into state space form. Participants explore methods and provide insights into the process, including the implications of having a proper transfer function and the different forms of state space representation.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asks for help converting the transfer function to state space form by hand.
  • Another participant suggests first obtaining a proper transfer function by dividing the numerator by the denominator, identifying the direct part of the system as 1/2.
  • Multiple forms of state space representation are presented, including standard reachability and observability forms, with specific matrix structures provided.
  • There is a mention of the need for the original poster (OP) to show their work and that the community cannot do the work for them.
  • A participant expresses confusion about applying the general method to the specific example, particularly regarding the dimensions of the C matrix in their calculations.
  • Some participants discuss the appropriateness of hints versus complete solutions in homework contexts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no clear consensus on the best approach to convert the transfer function, and participants express varying levels of understanding and confusion regarding the application of the proposed methods.

Contextual Notes

Participants note potential issues with the dimensions of matrices in state space representation and the need for clarity in applying general methods to specific examples. There are unresolved questions about the proper handling of transfer functions with equal degree numerator and denominator.

kanazi.1
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Hi,how can i convert the following transfer function to state space form by hand.

H(s)=(s^2+27s+50)/(2s^2+27s+50)

Any help will be appreciated!
 
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Well, first you have get a proper transfer function. You do that by dividing the numerator to the denominator to find the direct part of the sistem (D) : y(s) = D*u(s). So in your case that would be 1/2.
Now you have a proper transfer function (a first degree polynomial on a second degree polynomial). Now there are two well-known forms of the state space:

If your proper H(s) = N(s)/D(s),
where N(s) = s^n+ a1*s^(n-1) +...+an
D(s) = c1*s^(n-1)+...+cn

Standard reachability form:
Ar =
[ -a1 -a2 ... -an
1 0 ... 0
0 1 ... 0
...
0 0 .. 1 0 ]
Br= [1 0 ...0]'
Cr=[c1 ... cn]
(also Ar1 = the rows upside down ; br1=[0...1]; cr1=[cn...c1] )
Standard observability form:

Ao =
[ -a1 1 0 ... 0
-a2 0 1 ... 0
-a3 0 0 ... 0
....
-an 0 0 ... 0 ]
Co= [1 ... 0]
Bo= [c1...cn]
(also there is an equivalent ). If you need that I'll write it.

And of course there is D, which is 1/2 for your H(s).
 
Thread moved from EE to Homework Help forums.

Welcome to the PF, guys. Homework and coursework questions need to be posted here in the Homework Help forums, and when you post a HH question, you need to use the HH Template that is provided, and show us your work so that we can provide tutorial assistance.

And fact0ry, on homework/coursework questions like this (it may not have been obvious to you, since it was posted incorrectly in the EE forum), we are not allowed to do the original poster's (OP's) work for them. You can offer hints and point out mistakes in the OP's work, but the OP needs to do the bulk of the work.
 
fact0ry said:
well, first you have get a proper transfer function. You do that by dividing the numerator to the denominator to find the direct part of the sistem (d) : Y(s) = d*u(s). So in your case that would be 1/2.
Now you have a proper transfer function (a first degree polynomial on a second degree polynomial). Now there are two well-known forms of the state space:

If your proper h(s) = n(s)/d(s),
where n(s) = s^n+ a1*s^(n-1) +...+an
d(s) = c1*s^(n-1)+...+cn

standard reachability form:
Ar =
[ -a1 -a2 ... -an
1 0 ... 0
0 1 ... 0
...
0 0 .. 1 0 ]
br= [1 0 ...0]'
cr=[c1 ... Cn]
(also ar1 = the rows upside down ; br1=[0...1]; cr1=[cn...c1] )
standard observability form:

Ao =
[ -a1 1 0 ... 0
-a2 0 1 ... 0
-a3 0 0 ... 0
....
-an 0 0 ... 0 ]
co= [1 ... 0]
bo= [c1...cn]
(also there is an equivalent ). If you need that i'll write it.

And of course there is d, which is 1/2 for your h(s).




you are a lifesaver!
 
berkeman said:
Thread moved from EE to Homework Help forums.

Welcome to the PF, guys. Homework and coursework questions need to be posted here in the Homework Help forums, and when you post a HH question, you need to use the HH Template that is provided, and show us your work so that we can provide tutorial assistance.

And fact0ry, on homework/coursework questions like this (it may not have been obvious to you, since it was posted incorrectly in the EE forum), we are not allowed to do the original poster's (OP's) work for them. You can offer hints and point out mistakes in the OP's work, but the OP needs to do the bulk of the work.

Yeah, I thought he asked for a general solution. Or is that a homework/coursework question too?
Anyway, I like the hints idea :).
 
im sorry but I am confused as how you would apply your general solution to this problem.. i don't know how to convert a transfer function with an equal degree numerator and denominator into state space and i went looking on google and came across this page. I have the issue where my C matrix is one column too big when I use your method..

like how can you use the general method you proposed the specific example given?
 

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