How to determine gain and phase margins for a transfer function?

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SUMMARY

This discussion focuses on determining gain and phase margins for the transfer function G(s) = (0.38(s^2 + 0.1s + 0.55)) / (s(s+1)(s^2 + 0.6s + 0.5)). Participants emphasize the importance of Bode plots in visualizing the relationship between magnitude and frequency, as well as phase angle and frequency. Key calculations involve substituting s with iw, where w represents frequency, to derive amplitude and phase values. The phase margin is defined as the phase at the gain crossover frequency plus 180 degrees, which is crucial for stability analysis.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of transfer functions in control systems
  • Familiarity with Bode plots and their significance
  • Knowledge of complex numbers and their representation in frequency domain analysis
  • Basic grasp of phase margin and gain margin concepts
NEXT STEPS
  • Learn how to construct Bode plots for various transfer functions
  • Study the calculation of gain and phase margins in control systems
  • Explore the use of MATLAB or Python for frequency response analysis
  • Investigate methods for smoothing phase jumps in Bode plots
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Control engineers, electrical engineers, and students studying control systems who need to understand stability analysis through gain and phase margins.

annas425
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How would I determine gain and phase margins for the following transfer function:

G(s) = (0.38(s^2 + 0.1s +0.55)) / (s(s+1)(s^2 + 0.6s + 0.5))

We are learning about Bode plots but I am really struggling. I know that Bode plots display the relationship between magnitude vs. frequency and phase angle vs. frequency, but that's about it. I also know that s = iw (where w is \omega). Thank you so much, in advance! I am REALLY lost.
 
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You simply need to calculate this function as a function of w and determine the amplitude and the phase.
The phase is defined up to an indeterminacy of 2Pi.
Therefore, you might see 2Pi phase jumps in the graph.
Eventually you may find it nicer to smooth out these jumps.
 
maajdl said:
You simply need to calculate this function as a function of w and determine the amplitude and the phase.
The phase is defined up to an indeterminacy of 2Pi.
Therefore, you might see 2Pi phase jumps in the graph.
Eventually you may find it nicer to smooth out these jumps.

Thanks for the response! Honestly I don't understand what you mean…is there any way you could give me the steps to get started?

Many thanks! :)
 
For example, for w=1, you get:

G(i w) = -0.02024590163934427 - 0.1572950819672131 i = 0.15859268376650384 Exp(-1.6988053854680936 i)

the amplitude is 0.15859268376650384
the phase is -1.6988053854680936 = -0.54074654889676 Pi

And you need a definition (I don't know this terminoogy):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_margin
 
Last edited:
Nicer in this way:

for w=1

G(iw) = -247/12200 - 1919/12200 i

and therefore

amplitude(G(iw)) = sqrt((247/12200)² + (1919/12200)²) = 19/20 Sqrt(17/610)
phase(G(iw)) = arctan(1919/247) = arctan(101/13)
 
Make a plot as a function of w, for amplitude and phase.
I checked, there is no phase jumps.
 
the phase margin is your phase + 180 degrees at the point when your gain is 0 db or 1 magnitude.

so look on your bode plot where the gain crosses over 0 db. then look at your phase at the same frequency and add 180. Phase margin is an extremely important concept to learn.
 

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