How to find Torque without Coefficient of Friction?

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To find torque without the coefficient of friction, the discussion focuses on analyzing forces acting on a ladder leaning against a wall. The lever arms are calculated using the ladder's dimensions and angle, with the normal force from the wall and the weight of the ladder being the primary forces considered. The choice of the point of contact with the floor as the axis simplifies the torque calculations, eliminating forces that act through that point. The use of the weight of the ladder in the torque equation instead of friction is justified because friction does not create torque about the chosen axis. Understanding these principles is crucial for solving similar physics problems effectively.
Tyler Riley
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Hello! I am an AP Physics student and had a quick question for validity. I was prompted with this question in class today:
Example 7: An 8-meter ladder of weight 355 N leans at an angle of 50° to the floor against a smooth vertical wall. Assume the center of weight (gravity) for the ladder is at its linear center. Find the force exerted by the wall and the floor upon the ladder and the friction between the floor and the ladder.

I wasn't really paying attention and missed a class day of notes so I really don't understand anything really and was hoping you could answer my few questions.
Here is what I copied:

f = floor
r = lever arm
Ff = Friction force
Nf = Normal force or Floor
W = Weight
Nw = Normal force of Wall

rL = (4m)cos(50) = 2.57m
rW = (8m)sin(50) = 6.13m

∑Fy = 0
Nf - W = 0
Nf = W
355 N = 355 N

∑Fx = 0
Ff - Nw = 0

∑τ = 0
-W * rL - Nw * rW = 0
(-355 N) * (2.57) - Nw * (6.13) = 0
-912.35 = Nw * (6.13)
Nw = -148.833

Here are my questions:

Why isn't it (4m)sin(50) instead of (8m)sin(50)?

And why does she plug in
-W
in
-W * rL - Nw * rW = 0
instead of
Nf * μ
in
Nf * μ * rL - Nw * rW = 0
 
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Tyler Riley said:
Why isn't it (4m)sin(50) instead of (8m)sin(50)?
I assume you have a diagram.
When taking moments, you have to choose an axis. Any axis will do, usually, but it helps to pick one which several forces act through. That eliminates them from the torque balance equation since they have no torque about that axis.
The teacher has chosen the point of contact with the floor as the axis. The only forces with moment about that point are the weight of the ladder and the normal force from the wall. What is the lever arm of the force from the wall about the point of contact with the floor?
Tyler Riley said:
And why does she plug in
-W
in
-W * rL - Nw * rW = 0
instead of
Nf * μ
in
Nf * μ * rL - Nw * rW = 0
Same reason.
 
The book claims the answer is that all the magnitudes are the same because "the gravitational force on the penguin is the same". I'm having trouble understanding this. I thought the buoyant force was equal to the weight of the fluid displaced. Weight depends on mass which depends on density. Therefore, due to the differing densities the buoyant force will be different in each case? Is this incorrect?

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