How to Simplify This Complex Integral Calculation?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter kassem84
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Integral
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of a complex integral involving three-dimensional vectors and a specific function F. Participants are exploring the boundaries of the integrals defined by certain conditions in the context of theoretical physics or applied mathematics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the integral I and asks for assistance in calculating it, specifying the function F and the domain D.
  • Another participant inquires about the nature of the function F, seeking clarification on its definition.
  • A participant defines F as an exponential function and emphasizes the importance of determining the boundaries of the integrals.
  • Several participants express uncertainty regarding the notation used, particularly concerning dot products and the interpretation of the d^3 notation as vectors.
  • One participant suggests that the scalar version of the integral could provide insights into the boundaries, proposing a specific form for the integral in a rhomboid region.
  • Another participant questions how to use Mathematica to determine the boundaries, specifically regarding the intersection of three spheres defined by the conditions given.
  • A participant attempts to simplify the problem by considering a double integral and discusses the implications of spherical coordinates on the boundaries.
  • One participant illustrates how to compute the integral for a specific point in k-space, detailing the necessary conditions for the integration in q-space.
  • Another participant proposes a specific form for the integral, suggesting a fixed value for p to facilitate computation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and interpretation of the integral and its boundaries. There is no consensus on the correct approach or solution, and multiple competing views remain regarding the interpretation of the integral and the method of calculating the boundaries.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the complexity of determining the boundaries due to the conditions imposed on the vectors and the potential need for spherical coordinates. There are unresolved questions about the specific definitions and assumptions underlying the integral.

kassem84
Messages
11
Reaction score
0
Hello,
I have some difficulties of calculating the following integral:
I=\int _{D}\:\:\:d^{3}q\: d^{3}k\: d^{3}p\:\:F(q^{2}, q.k, q.p, k^{2}, p^{2})
where:
D=|k|>1, |k+q|<1 and |p-q|<1

Thanks in advance.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
What is the function F?
 
muppet said:
What is the function F?
Hello,
F=e^{-(q^{2}+q.k+q.p)}
The most important thing is how to obtain the boundaries of the integrals. i.e. q,p,k go from where to where?
Thanks.
 
I'm not sure I'm interpreting your notation correctly. Is that dot products in there? Also, the d^3 notation. Is that vectors? Tell you what, if it was just:

\int\int\int f(q,k,p) dqdkdp

then I think we can use Mathematica to obtain the boundaries.
 
Last edited:
jackmell said:
I'm not sure I'm interpreting your notation correctly. Is that dot products in there? Also, the d^3 notation. Is that vectors? Tell you what, if it was just:

\int\int\int f(q,k,p) dqdkdp

then I think we can use Mathematica to obtain the boundaries.

Yes, it is the correct notation of the integral I. All the vectors are 3-dimensional in the definition of the function and in the boundary D.
Thanks.
 
The scalar version is quite interesting. There are two rhomboid regions to integrate over since |k|>1. I believe this is the integral for the region k>1:


\mathop\iiint\limits_{D} f(p,q,k)dpdqdk=\int_{1}^{\infty}\int_{-1-k}^{1-k}\int_{q-k}^{q+k} f(p,q,k)dpdqdk


Perhaps the vector version is similar and you can adapt it to this one.
 
Last edited:
jackmell said:
I'm not sure I'm interpreting your notation correctly. Is that dot products in there? Also, the d^3 notation. Is that vectors? Tell you what, if it was just:

\int\int\int f(q,k,p) dqdkdp

then I think we can use Mathematica to obtain the boundaries.

How can we use mathematica to determine the boundaries- the intersection of the three spheres?
 
jackmell said:
The scalar version is quite interesting. There are two rhomboid regions to integrate over since |k|>1. I believe this is the integral for the region k>1:


\mathop\iiint\limits_{D} f(p,q,k)dpdqdk=\int_{1}^{\infty}\int_{-1-k}^{1-k}\int_{q-k}^{q+k} f(p,q,k)dpdqdk


Perhaps the vector version is similar and you can adapt it to this one.

Thanks. For the vector version, it difficult for me to determine the boundaries on the angles θ and \phi.
 
Could you or someone else tell me if I'm interpreting this correctly since I've never worked on one like this before. But first, let's just restrict it to a double integral for now:

\mathop\iint\limits_{D} f(k,q)d^3q\, d^3 k

where each integral is a triple integral in spherical coordinates and:
D={|k|>1, |k+q|<1}

We can compute the outer one easily. Since |k|>1, then for spherical coordinate r, we can write:

\mathop\int_{r&gt;1}\left( \mathop\int\limits_{S} f(k,q) d^3 q\right)\,d^3 k

So what is S? Since |k+q|<1, then that means we need:

\sqrt{(k_x+q_z)^2+(k_y+q_y)^2+(k_z+q_z)^2}&lt;1

for every point in k-space (k_x, k_y, k_z). Now suppose we have for a particular point:

k=(3,4,7)

Then for |k+q|<1, we would have to integrate in q-space over a sphere centered at q=(-3,-4,-7) with radius one. The boundary for that one k-point would be:

(q_x+3)^2+(q_y+4)^2+(q_z+7)^2=1

So for just that one k-point, the integral would be:

\mathop\iiint\limits_{(q_x+3)^2+(q_y+4)^2+(q_z+7)^2\leq 1} f(k,q)d^3q

and therefore for all of the k-space, we could then write:

\mathop\iiint\limits_{k_x^2+k_y^2+k_z^2&gt;1}\iiint_{(q_x-k_x)^2+(q_y-k_y)^2+(q_z-k_z)^2\leq 1} f(k,q)d^3q d^3k

Ok, so just for now, can we let p be what ever it has to be to work, say p=(1,1,1) or whatever, can we now compute:

\mathop\iiint\limits_{k_x^2+k_y^2+k_z^2&gt;1}\iiint_{(q_x-k_x)^2+(q_y-k_y)^2+(q_z-k_z)^2\leq 1} \exp\{-(q^2+q\cdot k+q\cdot(1,1,1))\}d^3q d^3k
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
602
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K