Hw can we relate conervation of momentum with Newton's third law?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the relationship between the conservation of momentum and Newton's third law, with a focus on both qualitative and quantitative aspects. The context includes theoretical considerations and examples, such as an apple falling towards Earth and static friction scenarios.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification, Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asks how to relate conservation of momentum to Newton's third law, specifically seeking clarification in both quantitative and qualitative terms.
  • Another participant suggests considering a static situation, using a rope pulling a box as an example, where the forces involved are balanced, leading to the equation F1 + F2 = 0.
  • A subsequent reply emphasizes the need to express the discussion in terms of momentum rather than just forces.
  • Another participant notes that forces are the time-derivative of momentum, indicating that if the time-derivative of momentum is zero, then momentum is conserved.
  • The same participant further connects this to the earlier example, stating that if acceleration is zero, then the net force must also be zero, reinforcing the relationship through algebraic reasoning.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing focuses, with some emphasizing the need for a momentum-based explanation while others provide force-based reasoning. The discussion remains unresolved regarding a unified explanation that satisfies all participants.

Contextual Notes

The discussion does not resolve the assumptions regarding the definitions of momentum and force, nor does it clarify the conditions under which these relationships hold. There is also an absence of consensus on the best approach to relate the concepts.

ehabmozart
Messages
212
Reaction score
0
Hw can we relate conervation of momentum with Newton's third law??

Hw can we relate conervation of momentum with Newton's third law??.. Quantitavely and qualitatevely i want a clarification for the realation between these.. Assume an apple falling towards earth.. Thanks in advance
 
Science news on Phys.org


Ok well it might help to imagine a situation that is "static". This means that the objects involved are not undergoing acceleration. A good example would be a rope pulling on a box that has yet to exceed its static friction.

In that case you know that Newtons first law holds so you have

\sum F = 0

now if you consider it a closed system then the only two forces acting are would be the force from the rope (f1), and the force opposing it from the static friction (f2).

hence you have

F1 + F2 = 0

simple algera yields

F1 = - F2
 


I get this point but i need in terms of momentum!
 


Forces are the time-derivative of momentum. If the time-derivative of momentum is always 0, momentum is constant (conserved).
 


Also going back to my example. If F = ma and we know that a = 0 then F must equal 0, and hence you can reach the conclusion using algebra above
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
7K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K