Hydraulic pressure/flow -- friction loss question

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    Friction Hydraulic Loss
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the effects of pipe orientation on hydraulic pressure and flow rates, specifically comparing a horizontal pipe with a pipe on a 10% grade. Participants explore the implications of gravitational forces, shear stress, and potential energy in fluid dynamics, with a focus on applications in springwater delivery and hydropower systems.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes how flow can be calculated based on input pressure, pipe geometry, and length, presenting a scenario with a standpipe and a horizontal pipe.
  • Another participant suggests performing a force balance along the pipe to analyze the gravitational component of force.
  • A participant expresses an intuitive belief that flow in the inclined pipe would be 25% of that in the horizontal pipe, based on pressure distribution.
  • Equations for axial force balance in both horizontal and inclined pipes are presented, highlighting shear stress at the wall and its relationship to flow rates.
  • Clarifications are sought regarding the parameters used in the equations, including the definitions of variables like diameter, gravity, and density.
  • One participant concludes that shear stress and flow rates are the same in both scenarios, based on energetic considerations and the relationship between potential energy and resistance.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the flow rates between the two pipe orientations, with some proposing differing views on the impact of gravitational forces and shear stress. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact relationship between the two scenarios.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the implications of their calculations and assumptions, particularly regarding the definitions of variables and the conditions under which the equations apply.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for individuals interested in fluid dynamics, hydraulic engineering, and applications related to water delivery systems and hydropower design.

magneticanomaly
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Flow delivered by a pipe can be calculated from input pressure, inlet geometry, pipe length, and a flow coefficient related to pipe cross-section, shape, and roughness. If we create an example of a pipe attached at the bottom of a self-refilling standpipe, which automatically supplies a constant inlet pressure related to its height, let the height of the standpipe be 100 ft, and the length of the horizontal pipe be 1000 feet.

Inlet pressure will be 100 feet of water column. Static pressure along the pipe will vary, linearly I suppose, from 100 ft w/c at inlet to zero at outlet. Delivery will be x gallons per minute.

How will the delivery rate be different if the 1000 feet of pipe is arranged on a 10% grade, so that there is 100 ft w/c of pressure head available over the length of the pipe, but inlet pressure is zero, or negligible, because the pipe inlet is at the level of the surface of the reservoir feeding it?

Thanks!
 
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Are you able to perform a force balance in the direction along the pipe over a differential section of pipe length for this case? What do you get, taking into account the gravitational component of force along the length?
 
Chestermiller, your suggestion sounds like the right approach, but I am only familiar with the simplistic empirical equation I describe. Intuitively, since in the first example the force (pressure) available to push the water through the pipe is maximum at the inlet and zero at outlet, while in the second the force is zero at both ends and maximum (but half the initial pressure in the first example) in the middle, I would think the flow in the second condition is 25% that in the first.

Can you suggest how to set up the force balance equations?
 
Is this a homework assignment ? Could you provide the complete problem description ?
 
The axial force balance on the tilted pipe will look like this: $$\frac{\pi D^2}{4}L\rho g \sin{\beta}=\pi DL\tau_w$$ or $$\tau_w=\rho g \sin{\beta}\frac{D}{4}$$where ##\tau_w## is the shear stress at the wall of the pipe.

For the horizontal pipe, the axial force balance will be $$\frac{\pi D^2}{4}\rho g h=\pi D L \tau_w$$ or $$\tau_w=\rho g \frac{h}{L}\frac{D}{4}$$
But, in the two cases, as you described it, $$\sin{\beta}=\frac{h}{L}$$

What does this tell you about the shear stresses at the wall and the flow rates?
 
Not a homework assignment, relevant to designing springwater delivery and hydropower systems.

Thanks very much , Chester, for laying out the equations. I assume D is pipe inside diameter, g is acceleration of gravity, L length of pipe. I assume beta is incline angle of pipe..do you mean angle above horizontal or below vertical? Is rho, viscosity? What units do you recommend?

I suppose shear stress is proportional to flow rate.

Grinding my doubtful way through your formulae, it appears to me that none of my questions above need answers, and since sin beta = h/L, the shear stress and thus the flow are the same in both situations. This makes sense to me from energetic considerations, since the same potential energy is dissipated over the same length of pipe with the same unit resistance in both cases.

THANKS!
 
magneticanomaly said:
Not a homework assignment, relevant to designing springwater delivery and hydropower systems.

Thanks very much , Chester, for laying out the equations. I assume D is pipe inside diameter, g is acceleration of gravity, L length of pipe. I assume beta is incline angle of pipe..do you mean angle above horizontal or below vertical? Is rho, viscosity? What units do you recommend?
beta is the angle of downward tilt relative to the horizontal. rho is the density. The choice of units is at your discretion. I would use imperial units myself.
I suppose shear stress is proportional to flow rate.
Yes, for a Newtonian fluid in laminar flow. Otherwise it is just a function of flow rate.
Grinding my doubtful way through your formulae, it appears to me that none of my questions above need answers, and since sin beta = h/L, the shear stress and thus the flow are the same in both situations. This makes sense to me from energetic considerations, since the same potential energy is dissipated over the same length of pipe with the same unit resistance in both cases.

THANKS!
The first formula says that the axial component of the weight of the fluid is balanced by the shear force along the wall of the tilted pipe. The second formula says that the force of the pressure difference between the ends of the pipe is balanced by the shear force among the wall of the horizontal pipe.
 

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