Hydrogen bond vs dipole-dipole?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the differences and relationships between hydrogen bonds and dipole-dipole interactions, particularly in the context of water molecules. Participants explore the nature of these interactions, their strengths, and the implications for molecular behavior in different phases of water.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that hydrogen bonds are considered a stronger version of dipole-dipole interactions.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the meaning of this relationship and requests further elaboration.
  • A participant describes hydrogen bonds as interactions between a positively charged region (hydrogen) of one molecule and a negatively charged region (oxygen) of another, indicating that both molecules are dipoles.
  • Another participant questions the nature of interactions between hydrogen atoms or H2 molecules, suggesting that they can undergo dipole-dipole dispersive interactions without permanent dipoles.
  • Participants discuss the magnitude of hydrogen bonds, with one stating they are in the 0.5 eV range, comparing them to covalent bonds and van der Waals forces.
  • There is mention of the correlation of orientations in H2O molecules contributing to effective attraction, despite average orientations being random.
  • One participant notes that hydrogen bonds involve a considerable transfer of charge between bonded molecules, which may not fit neatly into the dipole-dipole framework.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definitions and implications of hydrogen bonds versus dipole-dipole interactions. There is no consensus on the precise relationship between these concepts, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention various phases of water and the effects of hydrogen bonding on properties like melting and boiling points, but do not resolve the complexities of these interactions or their measurements across different states.

jaydnul
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I saw a video on youtube saying water molecules were held together by hydrogen bonding, not dipole dipole. Why is that?
 
Chemistry news on Phys.org
Hydrogen bonds are special (stronger) version of dipole-dipole interactions.
 
I have heard this statement before but I have no idea what it means. I think I know what dipole-dipole interactions are but I'm not sure about their relation to hydrogen bonds and conversely. Could you please elaborate?
 
Hydrogen bonds are bonds where one side of molecule A has a positively charged region (hydrogen, usually connected to oxygen) and one side of molecule B has a negatively charged region (usually oxygen). As both molecules are uncharged (otherwise, it would be an ionic bond), they have to be dipoles.
 
But two H atoms or two H2 molecules undergo dipole-dipole dispersive interactions without having permanent dipoles. Likewise for two orientation-averaged H2O molecules. What's the magnitude of a typical hydrogen bond? Can it be measured in any or all phases of H2O?
 
hydrogen bonds are in the 0.5 eV range.

for comparison, covalent bonds are in the single eVs while van der Waals forces are in the 0.1 eV range.

Of course in chemistry we more often talk about kJ/mol but those are hard numbers to compare when visualizing single bonds. eV are easy to compare to other things since we know the ionization energy of H atoms in eV.

You might notice, hey, hydrogen bonds and van der Waals forces don't seem all that different. However in the regime of low energies, even a tiny difference is huge.
 
AbdulQat said:
But two H atoms or two H2 molecules undergo dipole-dipole dispersive interactions without having permanent dipoles.
Van der Waals

Likewise for two orientation-averaged H2O molecules.
Their orientations are correlated, which gives an effective attraction even if the average orientation of each atom is random.

Can it be measured in any or all phases of H2O?
Ice is like many frozen hydrogen bonds, and the high melting/boiling point is a result of hydrogen bonds in ice and water. As gas, interactions between atoms are weak as always.
 
Although I don't remember the percentages, in hydrogen bonds there is also a considerable transfer of charge between the bonded molecules and other effects which can't be subsumed under dipole-dipole interaction.
 

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