I am the living Universe (please discuss)

[RSM1000]

Originally posted by Duom02
*Cough* That theory was in the THEORY DEVELOPMENT forum if you look in the theorteical physics section and click the sticky for new posters you will see that you put your own theories in theory development now let that sink in for a minute.

Now as to the god being a metaphor most literary anylists agree that most religion including god isn't meant to be taken at face value. For example adam and eve eating the apple, Now was that about them eating an apple or having sex. if you ask most people around the world they say an apple but then you inquire more and they'll figure out what it really meant. Now if you were discussing this on any other form i wouldn't jump to god being a metaphor but this is meant to be a detailed discussion which you can't seem to handle. Most people around the world don't know much about algebra 1 but they do here as do many seem to think god is at least partially a metaphor.

Like I said, unless you're using the widely accepted definition of a term, it's a good idea to let everyone know your definition to avoide confusing.

And since this isn't your original post, I wouldn't accept your definition as fitting into someone elses claim.

Try not to be hostile as in your other post. If you're creating new definitions and new theories point it out. Otherwise it looks to us as though you're just making honest mistakes.

 

[M. Gaspar]

Originally posted by Iacchus32
The within of the without is "the life," it is the spirit, it is the essence and, it is conscious(ness).

The reason why God might appear to be the "Great Outsider" is due to our "external perception," for which reason we fail to realize that God "resides within," the within of everything, even the within which is without (i.e., our range of external perception).

In other words, if we weren't so caught up in our "external existence," we would realize that God does not reside without, but within, in which case God becomes the "Great Insider."

As for this hero worship thing, I think it's due to a lack of maturity, or perhaps a sense of having no control (hence certainty) over one's life. Neither do I think we need to put people up on pedestals, even God Himself! ... as God is not looking for sycophants.

When someone claims that "God created the Universe", would not that "God" be, by definition, an "Outsider"?

What it "spirit" anyway? Any ideas? I "know" there's a PHYSICAL "plane". And I "know" there's a CONSCIOUS "plane". And I "prefer to think" that there's a SPIRITUAL "plane"...but I'm not exactly how to characterize it.

Do we need a new thread for this...or could you make a stab at a definition here?

Without waiting for your definition, let me say that if there IS a "spiritual" component to the Universe, then it "resides" -- like CONSCIOUSNESS -- in Everything That Is...great or small.

...IMO

 

[Iacchus32]

Originally posted by RSM1000
You are making the assumption here that God exists in reality. Why?

An assumption? What makes it any more of an assumption than yours? Please understand that it's not my place to validate "your" existence. So which reality are you speaking about? The reality of our perception? Or, the reality which exists beyond our perception? Do you believe in a possible "alternative reality?"

Starting off from scratch here, what is the rationality in proposing (outside of any religious statements) that universe must have had a creator?

Why start from scratch? Why forsake ten thousand years of human history? Just as everything has a beginning and an ending, why approach it from the standpoint of the middle, which is only "static" and takes us "nowhere?" How can we possibly evaluate something without first understanding what it does?

We know the origin of a child, we know the reasoning behind the formations of celestial bodies (some of them). Why propose that the universe exists in a finite time, and it has something created it which is infinite?

Because our outer skins cells are temporal and "dead," compared to that which is infinitesimally more "alive" and on the inside. The material reality is but "the form" (temporal and dead), of what the spiritual reality is "the essence" (alive and Eternal).

You're just adding more onto the equation because you can't yet solve it in it's simplistic form!

Who's saying I'm trying to solve anything? ... Other than the fact that I might be trying to find the best way to put it into words.

THIS UNIVERSE may or may not be finite. Remember the universe is not (any longer) considered to be everything...

Since when?

A universe is now properly definied as the entirity of a closed system.

Well we each live in our own little universes now don't we? And yet they're not entirely closed, because there's always something extending into them (as well their extending outwards).

There can and most likely is more than one universe. There is no reasoning behind there being only one.

There's at least more than one perception of it anyway. Doesn't mean there's more than one though.

The term universe has been redefinied, and also the term infinite might need to be. One universe (a closed system) can be inifinite, yet we could still have more than one infinite if we need to change the term to work without multiverse concepts.

Redefined by whom? And yet I'm quite content to work within the confines of only one Universe -- "the one that I know."

So saying (by itself) that the universe must have had a creator defies rationality. You've solved how the universe came, but now you need to solve why God came.

Does the sculpture question the hands of the sculptor in this regard? Maybe this is the reason why it's not that easy to answer ... because we are not the Creator (but its creation).

And furthermore, any answers you give to solve the God problem could just as likely solve the Universe problem and eliminate God.

To whom? That's the whole beauty of it, it doesn't require Science for the answer (at least for oneself). Matter of fact it would be a long time in waiting to see when Science gets off its duff and actually does something about it. And, while it's one thing to dismiss something, it's entirely another to disprove it.

 

[Iacchus32]

Originally posted by M. Gaspar
When someone claims that "God created the Universe", would not that "God" be, by definition, an "Outsider"?

And yet one can build a house for oneself and live in it. Why do we call the church the house of God? And why do we call our bodies the living temple of the living God?

What it "spirit" anyway? Any ideas? I "know" there's a PHYSICAL "plane". And I "know" there's a CONSCIOUS "plane". And I "prefer to think" that there's a SPIRITUAL "plane"...but I'm not exactly how to characterize it.

I think spirit is just another manifestation of consciousness. You know, what happens to our consciousness when we die? When almost instantaneously we're gone?

Do we need a new thread for this...or could you make a stab at a definition here?

That might be a good idea. At least there will be two of us talking along the same lines. Wouldn't that be something! Got any ideas?

Without waiting for your definition, let me say that if there IS a "spiritual" component to the Universe, then it "resides" -- like CONSCIOUSNESS -- in Everything That Is...great or small.

...IMO

This is why I essentially equate one with the other, and why I say we have a soul (consciousness) which has a place to go when we die.

 

[emanon]

Just to clear up what 'the Universe' is in this case...

It is everything related to the infinite energy known as Brian Brane.

Possibly there are other Universes, in the traditional sense, that are related to Brian, but this Universe is the one we live in.

It is interesting to remember that this Universe might actually co-exist with other Universes, again in the traditional sense.

However, the more likely scenario is that there have been other Universes prior to this one, and that this one is a more stable or longer lasting Universe.

I am sure if the theorectical physicists thought about it makes sense to have this Universe pop-out from a series of Universes whose natural parameters never quite made them stable enough.

And as this Universe expanded, those parameters tuned themselves to the values we see today...

 

[M. Gaspar]

Originally posted by Iacchus32
And yet one can build a house for oneself and live in it. Why do we call the church the house of God? And why do we call our bodies the living temple of the living God?

Because we're silly.

I think spirit is just another manifestation of consciousness. You know, what happens to our consciousness when we die? When almost instantaneously we're gone?

I say EVERYTING might be a manifestation of the CONSCIOUSNESS of the Universe.

That might be a good idea. At least there will be two of us talking along the same lines. Wouldn't that be something! Got any ideas?

Nothing but!

This is why I essentially equate one with the other, and why I say we have a soul (consciousness) which has a place to go when we die.

Yes, from the PHYSICAL "plane"...back to PURE ENERGY.


And NOW -- tah tahhh -- let us SEE if i ISOLATED your QUOTES! I am not optimistic.

...back via "Edit" to say: WHAT A MESS!

 

[Iacchus32]

Originally posted by M. Gaspar
Because we're silly.

Aside from the fact that it's borrowed from the "book of books" (have to kind of steer it away from religion a bit) it's a very good metaphor (or analogy).

I say EVERYTING might be a manifestation of the CONSCIOUSNESS of the Universe.

And yet I would say this consciousness was none other than the "Host of Hosts."

Nothing but!

I don't know about that, although I admit it was a bear of post I had to reply to before answering yours. Kind of threw me (took me out of stride) and I wasn't quite prepared to answer it. Looks like Brian McBrain would rather we didn't discuss this on his thread anyway. Maybe I'll start one up along the lines of "Is the Universe Conscious?" or "Consciousness and the Material Universe," or something like that? Keep your eyes peeled. Or, maybe I'll send you an e-mail.

Yes, from the PHYSICAL "plane"...back to PURE ENERGY.

I think it's less important how we define God than it is to define ourselves, i.e., know "who" we are. And yet how we define God still effects hwo we define ourselves ...

And NOW -- tah tahhh -- let us SEE if i ISOLATED your QUOTES! I am not optimistic.

...back via "Edit" to say: WHAT A MESS!

Not bad for a first try! ... And what is it that you don't like about it? Just pay attention to how many lines you want between replies (I usually maintain two) and whether you want everything to appear in bold or not. You also have the preview button in order to look it over before you submit it.

I do this a lot, and a good rule of thumb would be to do a "select all" (right-hand mouse click) and hit "copy," in case something something screws up and you need to "paste" everything into a new window. It's a good idea to do periodically especially when working with a long post.

 

[BoulderHead]

Ok, all fun and games aside;

And yet I would say this consciousness was none other than the "Host of Hosts."

Iacchus32,
I keep hearing about this ‘consciousness’ all the time. Why cannot consciousness simply cease to exist upon the death of the physical body?
Have you ever been under general anesthesia before and noticed how consciousness seems to just disappear? Even if consciousness is somehow outside the physical brain, it nevertheless certainly seems to be tied to it in a very real fashion. I am not at all ready to take for granted that consciousness is not dependant on our brains, however mysterious and wonderful it is.

 

[Iacchus32]

Originally posted by BoulderHead
Iacchus32,
I keep hearing about this ‘consciousness’ all the time. Why cannot consciousness simply cease to exist upon the death of the physical body?

And yet what is it about being human that doesn't involve consciousness?

Have you ever been under general anesthesia before and noticed how consciousness seems to just disappear?

Have you ever become awake in your dreams, and were fully conscious?

Even if consciousness is somehow outside the physical brain, it nevertheless certainly seems to be tied to it in a very real fashion. I am not at all ready to take for granted that consciousness is not dependant on our brains, however mysterious and wonderful it is.

Ever feel like you have always been here, and were never meant to die?


From thread, https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2518&perpage=15&pagenumber=2" ...

Originally posted by Iacchus32

Originally posted by Alexander
Define "death".

Ahh death, the great unknown ...

So where does our consciousness go when we die? Does it just up and evaporate, like that!

Yes.

But why does the conclusion of consciousness, which is our existence, seem so illogical? Can you address this in yourself consciously, and then imagine that "you" don't exist? Why does the whole idea seem so strange?

Can you clarify?

I think most people have a sense about life, in the conscious sense, that we're not supposed to die. You ever feel that way? Or, feel it would be nice to extend our lives even further than we can currently? What is it about life that maintains the sense that we should "carry on," even in spite of death? ... Is this any more clear? Probably not ...

Do you ever feel like you were meant to live forever? And, is this a feeling that can be associated with one's consciousness?

Have created a new post called, https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2564", if you would care to go there?

 

[M. Gaspar]

Originally posted by Iacchus32
. Maybe I'll start one up along the lines of "Is the Universe Conscious?" or "Consciousness and the Material Universe," or something like that? Keep your eyes peeled. Or, maybe I'll send you an e-mail.

Iacchus:

I don't know why I logged on at this time, as I have ZERO TIME to reply to anything. HOWEVER, I will tell you that I started a thread a few weeks back entitled: Is the Universe Conscious" which I'm going to access now, do a post on it, then you'll see it appear on the PF menu again. This way, I don't have to repeat myself...IF you'll take the time to read what I -- and others -- have had to say.

Would love to continue the discussion anyway...

 

[Iacchus32]

Originally posted by M. Gaspar
Iacchus:

I don't know why I logged on at this time, as I have ZERO TIME to reply to anything. HOWEVER, I will tell you that I started a thread a few weeks back entitled: Is the Universe Conscious" which I'm going to access now, do a post on it, then you'll see it appear on the PF menu again. This way, I don't have to repeat myself...IF you'll take the time to read what I -- and others -- have had to say.

Would love to continue the discussion anyway...

Actually I started a new thread called, https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2564". Please take a look. Thanks!