I don't understand <u|A|v> notation

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter JPMPhysics
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Notation
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interpretation and meaning of the notation in quantum mechanics, specifically in the context of bra-ket notation and operators. Participants explore the implications of this notation, its relation to the Born rule, and the distinction between pure and non-pure states.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that represents the expected value of an observable A in quantum mechanics, linking it to the Born rule.
  • Others clarify that can be expressed in different forms, such as ( and and that the last form is valid because A is Hermitian.
  • One participant mentions the need to know the specific textbook being used to tailor the explanation to the appropriate level of understanding.
  • There is a correction regarding the notation, with a participant questioning the placement of the | symbol in and confirming it should be instead.
  • Another participant elaborates on the relationship between bras and kets, referencing the Riesz Representation Theorem and how it relates to linear operators in quantum mechanics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying interpretations of the notation and its implications, indicating that multiple competing views remain. There is no consensus on a singular interpretation or explanation.

Contextual Notes

Some participants reference specific textbooks, such as Griffiths and Ballentine, suggesting that understanding may depend on the level of detail and context provided in these texts. There is also mention of the distinction between pure and non-pure states, which may not be universally covered in all introductory materials.

JPMPhysics
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
u and v are vector or whatever in that base, and A is an operator. What does <u|A|v> mean?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
JPMPhysics said:
u and v are vector or whatever in that base, and A is an operator. What does <u|A|v> mean?
Which QM textbook are you using?
 
JPMPhysics said:
u and v are vector or whatever in that base, and A is an operator. What does <u|A|v> mean?

It means <u|A|v> = (<u|A)|v> = <u(|A|v>) = <v|A|u> - the last is true because A is Hermitian.

For so called pure states, its an axiom of QM, called the Born rule, that the expected value of the obsevable A, E(A) is <u|A|v>. In fact its a special case of the full Born Rule E(A) = Trace (PA) where P is any state, not just a pure one.

If the above doesn't make much sense, then, as Strangerep says, we need to know exactly the textbook you are using so the answer can be pitched at whatever background it provides. What I said above is at the level of Ballentine - Quantum Mechanics - A Modern Development, which is a more advanced graduate level text. Beginning textbooks may, for example, not make a distinction between pure and non pure states.

Thanks
Bill
 
Last edited:
I'm using Griffiths textbook.

bhobba said:
It means <u|A|v> = (<u|A)|v> = <u(|A|v>) = <v|A|u> - the last is true because A is Hermitian.

For so called pure states, its an axiom of QM, called the Born rule, that the expected value of the obsevable A, E(A) is <u|A|v>. In fact its a special case of the full Born Rule E(A) = Trace (PA) where P is any state, not just a pure one.

If the above doesn't make much sense, then, as Strangerep says, we need to know exactly the textbook you are using so the answer can be pitched at whatever background it provides. What I said above is at the level of Ballentine - Quantum Mechanics - A Modern Development, which is a more advanced graduate level text. Beginning textbooks may, for example, not make a distinction between pure and non pure states.

Thanks
Bill

Don't you mean <u|(A|v>)? The | before the (?
 
JPMPhysics said:
I'm using Griffiths textbook. Don't you mean <u|(A|v>)? The | before the (?

Sorry - yes I mean <u|(A|v>)

Well in chapter 3 Griffiths explains the Bra-Ket notation so you should understand it.

Wikipedia explains it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bra–ket_notation

But in case you find difficulty with those presentations here is my take.

Vectors are written as |a> called kets. Given a vector space you have the set of linear functions mapping to complex numbers defined on those vectors (called functionals). Formally they also form a vector space called its dual. They are called bras and are written as <b|. Since bras are linear functions defined on kets you have <b|a>, which is the linear function <b| acting on |a>, called a Bra-Ket (British for bracket :biggrin:).

Now there is this nifty theorem, called the Riesz Representation Theorem, that shows the bras and kets can be put into one to one correspondence such that <a|b> = complex conjugate <b|a>, and this correspondence is generally assumed:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riesz_representation_theorem

If A is a linear operator mapping kets to kets A|a> is also a ket. But since A|a> is a ket it can be acted on by a bra to give <b|A|a>. But this can be viewed as a linear functional defined on |a>. Hence <b|A is a bra and defines how linear operators act on bras. Thus by definition (<u|A)|v> = <u|(A|v>) as I posted previously and mucked up. The ket corresponding to the bra <a|A defines a linear operator on |a> called its Hermitian Conjugate A* so this ket is A*|a>. So we have <a|A|b> = conjugate <b|A*|a>. Operators such that A=A* are called Hermitian and by definition observables in QM are Hermitian.

This is the why of the equations I posted before.

Hopefully that helps, because there isn't really much more to be said.

Thanks
Bill
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K