I want to help Physics education. What should I do?

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The discussion centers around the lack of enthusiasm for physics among students, particularly in elite schools, where other sciences like chemistry and biology receive more attention. The original poster expresses a desire to change this perception by introducing younger students to the beauty of physics before they encounter it in a more rigid academic setting. They reflect on their own passion for physics, which was inspired by family experiences, and seek advice on how to promote physics education effectively. Responses emphasize the importance of self-education and patience, suggesting that true understanding comes from teaching and engaging with students. Ultimately, the conversation highlights the need for innovative approaches to spark interest in physics among younger learners.
  • #31
I put an "EDIT; Addition" part into post #11, explaining my pessimistic posting.
 
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  • #32
TensorCalculus said:
I think it's fair to say that the secondary (Middle+ High) school that I go to is one of the most elite in the country - yet I am yet to see another person with a passion for physics. There are countless who have dedicated their life to Chemistry, Computer Science, Maths, Biology... pushing boundaries and achieving genius level things in those subjects - being the best in the country, then pushing for best in the world. And they all have their own communities: groups of people who work together and talk to each other, share their passion.

I am yet to see anything like this for Physics. Our school physics club is just barely running with less than 10 people every week, and I don't know anyone in my year or the year above who even likes physics: let alone has a passion for it and wants to pursue it beyond the curriculum. I've probably whined about this in some sort of thread before: how every time I try to talk to someone about physics, or some new "cool thing" I've learnt, I almost always get shut down with a "Is it going to be on the physics GCSE? If not, I don't care."

This seems to change when the students enter A-Levels. There's a handful of students that end up going and doing physics at university every year. Not many, but they do exist. Quoting a sixth former: "Yeah, people actually start to like physics in Year 12. They take the A-Level simply because they need it for whatever other University course they wanted to do, thinking it's going to be as boring as the GCSE, but then end up liking it a lot more than they expected." So maybe it is possible the mindsets of students can be changed.

Have you spoken with the physics teachers at your school?
They may have some insight into some of what you are experiencing in your school.
Do you have friends at other high-schools with a more-active physics community?
Maybe they can offer some further insight.

How organized are the other communities (e.g. Biology and Math) in your school?
Faculty support (for guidance)? School funding (for events)? Alumni support (alumni that return to recruit)?
Nearby university and industrial support (for recruitment, like summer camps and internships)?


Physics delayed until the 12th grade may also contribute to the lack of enthusiasm you see.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physics_First is an approach that tries to change this.
I haven't followed this to know how successful it is.


https://www.iop.org/careers-physics/your-future-with-physics
https://www.aps.org/careers/physicist-profiles
https://www.aps.org/careers/options
might be helpful in improving the public perception
of physics and of what physicists and students-with-more-physics-training can do.

https://www.aps.org/initiatives/physics-education/k-12
https://www.nsf.gov/focus-areas/physics/educational-resources
(specialized: https://q12education.org/learning-materials-framework )
might help students learn more about physics before reaching high-school.
 
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  • #33
robphy said:
Have you spoken with the physics teachers at your school?
They may have some insight into some of what you are experiencing in your school.
Do you have friends at other high-schools with a more-active physics community?
Maybe they can offer some further insight.

How organized are the other communities (e.g. Biology and Math) in your school?
Faculty support (for guidance)? School funding (for events)? Alumni support (alumni that return to recruit)?
Nearby university and industrial support (for recruitment, like summer camps and internships)?


Physics delayed until the 12th grade may also contribute to the lack of enthusiasm you see.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physics_First is an approach that tries to change this.
I haven't followed this to know how successful it is.


https://www.iop.org/careers-physics/your-future-with-physics
https://www.aps.org/careers/physicist-profiles
https://www.aps.org/careers/options
might be helpful in improving the public perception
of physics and of what physicists and students-with-more-physics-training can do.

https://www.aps.org/initiatives/physics-education/k-12
https://www.nsf.gov/focus-areas/physics/educational-resources
(specialized: https://q12education.org/learning-materials-framework )
might help students learn more about physics before reaching high-school.
In the UK, where OP is, all sciences are learned in 9th and 10th grade. OP's teachers are also test focused.
 
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  • #34
Mister T said:
Choose a college with a physics department that is actively involved in Physics Education Research (PER). Start reading up on contributions made to PER. Read journals like the American Journal of Physics (AJP) and The Physics Teacher (TPT) to learn about the contributions to PER; who's making them and where. This will help you in your selection of, and admission to, colleges.
Oh. That makes sense. Sure, I will! Thank you for the advice.
robphy said:
Have you spoken with the physics teachers at your school?
They may have some insight into some of what you are experiencing in your school.
Do you have friends at other high-schools with a more-active physics community?
Maybe they can offer some further insight.
I spoke to my teacher a couple months ago - she basically said she didn't really know. I have a different teacher next year though: maybe he will offer some insight.

As for other schools... as far as I can tell from asking friends who go to those schools... they all experience the same problem: a lack in enthusiasm for physics. From what they tell me, "everyone hates physics". I genuinely don't think there are any other schools in the area with a more active physics community...
robphy said:
How organized are the other communities (e.g. Biology and Math) in your school?
Faculty support (for guidance)? School funding (for events)? Alumni support (alumni that return to recruit)?
Nearby university and industrial support (for recruitment, like summer camps and internships)?
Take the example of maths, which our school is BIG on:
-> Multiple clubs for different ages, some which teach Olympiad maths (and are lead by a teacher who has marked the IMO before) and some which are for students and teachers to give talks on niche/specific maths things which interest them. These clubs are really popular, to the point where toher clubs try not to run on the same day as maths club because they know lots of people will be in maths club.
-> Every student in our school has to take the UK Maths Olympiad that's made for their age (e.g. Year 7 and Year 8 will take the Junior Maths Challenge) and top set have to take the level for the age bracket above as well
-> Funding for maths-based events, such as funding for maths teams to go and compete (and often win - because kids are keen about maths) national maths competitons
-> Maths surgery for kids who struggle so that they can improve at their maths
-> Multiple opportunities to participate in Olympiads/Competitons even if you're not yet at the age where said Olympiad would be taken, no matter your skill level
->Occassionally external lectures (usually from Cambridge University) coming in to talk about maths

Biology and Chemistry have less than this, but nonetheless much more support than physics. They look something like this:
-> 3 general clubs, one for Y7 and Y8, one for Y9, Y10 and Y11, and one for Y12 and Y13. All the clubs would have staff running them, and enough students to fill the lab. Usually they do practicals - for biology this is usually some kind of dissection. And if not a practical, then it's a student giving some sort of talk about some area they're passionate about.
-> more specific clubs, such as Vetinary society, Medical Society, and NeuroSoc each with their own staff and student base
-> Olympiad opportunities at least 4-5 times a year, for the whole school
-> Particularly for Medical, guest speakers and experienced professionals to come in and give lectures.
-> Biology/Chemistry surgery to help kids who struggle with the subject to get their grades up

Physics looks like this:
-> One club, with no staff, run by two sixth formers (only one of which who actually shows up) are sort of just doing it just so that they can put "I ran physics club" on their CV. Maybe 2-5 attendees per week (one of which is always me) - give or take.
-> Physics surgery to help kids who are struggling. General rule of thumb is that <40% on your physics test and you get sent by your teacher to surgery. This one is packed.
-> Opportunity to do the physics challenge/Olympiad for your age group - maybe. And if you want to do one for the age older than you, you have to ask really, really nicely. And then prove that you will actually do somewhat well and aren't just claiming you can do a physics olympiad for people older than you.
robphy said:
Physics delayed until the 12th grade may also contribute to the lack of enthusiasm you see.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physics_First is an approach that tries to change this.
I haven't followed this to know how successful it is.
Not here: in Britian you have to learn it in Y10 and Y11 (so grade 9 and 10) and for most schools (like ours) physics education starts from Year 7 (grade 6).
robphy said:
Ah potentially! Looks cool - I will look into it when my Internet is less... weird.
Muu9 said:
In the UK, where OP is, all sciences are learned in 9th and 10th grade. OP's teachers are also test focused.
Exactly.

My last physics teacher encouraged me not to study physics in my own time lest I ruin my GCSE grades by studying too far ahead...
The one I have next year is less test- focused: I've had him teach me before and he's a bit more open to me studying ahead and was happy to answer my questions. Maybe I'll have a bit more luck there.
 
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  • #35
TensorCalculus said:
I spoke to my teacher a couple months ago - she basically said she didn't really know.
To me, that speaks volumes about why the physics program lacks vigor at your school.

Why wait until next year to speak to your next year's teacher? Go ask now. Teachers are almost always willing to speak to students; prospective students, current students, and past students. If not, again there is something very wrong, something that to me explains why the physics program at your school lacks vigor.

The Latin root of the word teach means to lead. Teachers must lead their students. There's an old saying that dates back, I think, to the American civil war in the 1860's. Reporters were asking a general why so many union officers, particularly generals, were being killed by leading charges against the enemy. The response was, "you can't push a string".

Good teachers lead their students towards where they want them to go, they can't push the students there!
 
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  • #36
TensorCalculus said:
I genuinely don't think there are any other schools in the area with a more active physics community...
What about Hills Road or Cambridge Maths School? Maybe the students in Oxford COMPOS and quantum club, although I don't know how difficult it would be to connect with them given the safeguarding measures in place.
 
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  • #37
Thestudentroom is a popular UK site - maybe there are people passionate about physics there?
 
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  • #38
Mister T said:
To me, that speaks volumes about why the physics program lacks vigor at your school.

Why wait until next year to speak to your next year's teacher? Go ask now. Teachers are almost always willing to speak to students; prospective students, current students, and past students. If not, again there is something very wrong, something that to me explains why the physics program at your school lacks vigor.

The Latin root of the word teach means to lead. Teachers must lead their students. There's an old saying that dates back, I think, to the American civil war in the 1860's. Reporters were asking a general why so many union officers, particularly generals, were being killed by leading charges against the enemy. The response was, "you can't push a string".

Good teachers lead their students towards where they want them to go, they can't push the students there!
It's the middle of the summer holidays: I doubt he would be checking his emails, no? But you are right - I've just realised that the fact that my teacher basically responded with "I don't know" does actually say a lot.
Ah - it is true that you can only lead students to where they want to go. Would be much easier if they could push them :cry: .
Muu9 said:
What about Hills Road or Cambridge Maths School? Maybe the students in Oxford COMPOS and quantum club, although I don't know how difficult it would be to connect with them given the safeguarding measures in place.
Hills road even less so than here
CMS... I don't know. Potentially. But they are generally more into maths there than anything else. COMPOS and quantum club are places where I would indeed find a handful of people who like physics (even if they're a bit older than me) - good idea!
Muu9 said:
Thestudentroom is a popular UK site - maybe there are people passionate about physics there?
Hmm maybe: though from my experience it's more just people wanting to not fail their exam than people who actually care about the subject.
 
  • #39
TensorCalculus said:
Hills road even less so than here
But Hills is much bigger, so even if it's rarer, there should still be some regular attendance at the physics society, no?
Maybe a GYG thread could help you find others interested in your physics activities?
There's also the physics olympiad discord server, although it's not UK specific
 
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  • #40
Mister T said:
Start reading up on contributions made to PER. Read journals like the American Journal of Physics (AJP) and The Physics Teacher (TPT) to learn about the contributions to PER; who's making them and where. This will help you in your selection of, and admission to, colleges.
@TensorCalculus I didn't think about you being on the other side of the pond. I'm sure there are journals there dedicated to PER, or at least to physics teaching. And by physics teaching I'm referring to all grade levels, including university level.

As you read you'll encounter references to other articles that you'll hopefully be chasing down, and those in turn will lead to others. It'll feel at first like you're climbing a tree that forever keeps branching out. But it won't take long for you to start recognizing references that you've read before, and things quickly smooth out. This is true any time you start researching a new field.
 
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  • #41
Muu9 said:
But Hills is much bigger, so even if it's rarer, there should still be some regular attendance at the physics society, no?
Maybe a GYG thread could help you find others interested in your physics activities?
There's also the physics olympiad discord server, although it's not UK specific
Nope, not really. It's not much bigger (though all the students are the same age) - I haven't heard of a big physics society from the students I know from there.
What's GYG? I don't have (and I think with the new UK law that just came out I won't be able to) discord but I can always try :)
Mister T said:
@TensorCalculus I didn't think about you being on the other side of the pond. I'm sure there are journals there dedicated to PER, or at least to physics teaching. And by physics teaching I'm referring to all grade levels, including university level.

As you read you'll encounter references to other articles that you'll hopefully be chasing down, and those in turn will lead to others. It'll feel at first like you're climbing a tree that forever keeps branching out. But it won't take long for you to start recognizing references that you've read before, and things quickly smooth out. This is true any time you start researching a new field.
Yes there are: I took a look and there are a lot of things related to physics teaching etc. It's really interesting!
That is exactly how I felt... But I will trust the process and trust that things will smooth out eventually :D
 
  • #42
TensorCalculus said:
I took a look and there are a lot of things related to physics teaching etc. It's really interesting!
Look into the work Eric Mazur did at Harvard University. When he started teaching he was taken aback by student course evaluations that revealed how much students hated physics, even though they were successful students. They found the course material tedious and the learning process something they tolerated rather than enjoyed. He set to turning things around and was successful at getting students to experience the joy and satisfaction of learning physics. Among other publications he wrote a book called Peer Instruction and IIRC he tells his story in that book.
 
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  • #43
Post #34, TensorCalculus, you mention a few very very strange things: Maths Surgery, Biology/Chemistry Surgery, Physics Surgery. I may try to re-interpret, but best if YOU explain those "surgeries".
 
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  • #44
symbolipoint said:
Post #34, TensorCalculus, you mention a few very very strange things: Maths Surgery, Biology/Chemistry Surgery, Physics Surgery. I may try to re-interpret, but best if YOU explain those "surgeries".
My interpretation is that it's intensive tutoring for those struggling
 
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  • #45
Here's a suggestion:

Physics Video viewing sessions.
(Many of these are videos I watched as a student ( high-school, college grad ) in VHS format;
apparently now available on the internet).
Of course, nowadays, there are some great videos by
https://www.youtube.com/c/3blue1brown
https://www.youtube.com/veritasium
and others.


Powers of Ten™ (1977)
Flatland 1965 ( see Amazon Flatland: A Romance of Many Dimensions by Edwin A. Abbott )
"The Hypercube: Projections and Slicing" 1978 Award-winning computer animation (Thomas Banchoff)


FEYNMAN: THE PLEASURE OF FINDING THINGS OUT (1981)
see Amazon The Pleasure of Finding Things Out: The Best Short Works of Richard P. Feynman


https://www.feynmanlectures.caltech.edu/messenger.html
Cornell Messenger Lectures (1964) "The Character of Physical Law"
( 7 videos:
The Law of Gravitation: an example of physical law
The Relation of Mathematics and Physics
The Great Conservation Principles
Symmetry in Physical Law
The Distinction of Past and Future
Probability and Uncertainty: the quantum mechanical view of nature
Seeking New Laws
)
see Amazon The Character of Physical Law
see also https://www.feynmanlectures.caltech.edu/recordings.html
(online text at https://www.feynmanlectures.caltech.edu/ )


https://feynman.com/science/qed-lectures-in-new-zealand/
The Douglas Robb Memorial Lectures (1979)
QED: Photons-Corpuscles of Light (Richard Feynman 1/ 4)
QED: Fits of Reflection and Transmission: Quantum Behaviour (Richard Feynman 2/4)
QED: Electrons and their Interactions (Richard Feynman 3/4)
QED: New Queries (Richard Feynman 4/4)
see on Amazon QED: The Strange Theory of Light and Matter (Princeton Science Library)


(1986) The reason for antiparticles - Richard P. Feynman
see on Amazon Elementary Particles and the Laws of Physics (has images from the slides)

https://iucat.iu.edu/iub/5327621
(1983) Richard Feynman the quantum mechanical view of reality
Richard Feynman: Quantum Mechanical View of Reality 1
Richard Feynman: Quantum Mechanical View of Reality 2
Richard Feynman: Quantum Mechanical View of Reality 3
Richard Feynman: Quantum Mechanical View of Reality 4


(1975) Dirac lecture 1 of 4 - Quantum Mechanics - very clean audio
(1975) Dirac lecture 2 of 4 - Quantum Electrodynamics - very clean audio
(1975) Dirac lecture 3 of 4 - Magnetic Monopoles - very clean audio
(1975) Dirac lecture 4 of 4 - Does 'G' vary? (Large Numbers Hypothesis) - very clean audio.
see Amazon Directions in physics: Lectures delivered during a visit to Australia and New Zealand August/September 1975


Einstein's Universe (1979) - narrated and hosted by Peter Ustinov (with John Wheeler, Roger Penrose, and others)
[this video and the accompanying book by Nigel Calder inspired me to pursue research in relativity]
 
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  • #46
Mister T said:
Look into the work Eric Mazur did at Harvard University. When he started teaching he was taken aback by student course evaluations that revealed how much students hated physics, even though they were successful students. They found the course material tedious and the learning process something they tolerated rather than enjoyed. He set to turning things around and was successful at getting students to experience the joy and satisfaction of learning physics. Among other publications he wrote a book called Peer Instruction and IIRC he tells his story in that book.
Done - I've got a handful of PDFs downloaded and I'll look at them today
I'll see if I can get my hands on that book...
symbolipoint said:
Post #34, TensorCalculus, you mention a few very very strange things: Maths Surgery, Biology/Chemistry Surgery, Physics Surgery. I may try to re-interpret, but best if YOU explain those "surgeries".
The surgeries, to my understanding, are there to help out those who are struggling - there is one for GCSE and one for A Level.
Either you think you are struggling and go there of your own accord, or you get a bad test score and your teacher sends you there. And then from what I've heard, you essentially get a teacher to come and help you review what went wrong and give you extra support to help you to catch up with what you're struggling with.
Physics surgery is from what I've heard... almost always oversubscribed.
robphy said:
Physics Video viewing sessions.
(Many of these are videos I watched as a student ( high-school, college grad ) in VHS format;
apparently now available on the internet).
Of course, nowadays, there are some great videos by
https://www.youtube.com/c/3blue1brown
https://www.youtube.com/veritasium
and others.
I love 3b1b and Veritasium! I think that for most kids in the earlier year groups (Grades 6-9) 3b1b might be a bit too mathematically intensive, but some of Veritasium's videos might be cool!
The main thing is getting people to actually want to spend their lunchtimes coming to these viewing sessions...
robphy said:
Ah - they show this to all of the grade 7s when they are learning about space for the first time. Leaves quite a few people shocked.
"Wait, I thought there was only one galaxy, like the galaxy is bigger than the universe?! Are there actually tons of galaxies?!"
"What do you mean there are other solar systems?"
"Wait - the universe is so... big"
"Uhh that's wrong, where are the electrons that are orbiting the nucleus"
etc. etc.
It does share a lot of insight.
robphy said:
Huh?! There's a video?! I love that book!
I actually have a lot of faith in this video that it might be able to convince people that there is something in physics worth studying. But no one would come to watch it in lunchtimes: it would have to be screened in class.
robphy said:
https://www.feynmanlectures.caltech.edu/messenger.html
Cornell Messenger Lectures (1964) "The Character of Physical Law"
( 7 videos:
The Law of Gravitation: an example of physical law
The Relation of Mathematics and Physics
The Great Conservation Principles
Symmetry in Physical Law
The Distinction of Past and Future
Probability and Uncertainty: the quantum mechanical view of nature
Seeking New Laws
)
see Amazon The Character of Physical Law
see also https://www.feynmanlectures.caltech.edu/recordings.html
(online text at https://www.feynmanlectures.caltech.edu/ )


https://feynman.com/science/qed-lectures-in-new-zealand/
The Douglas Robb Memorial Lectures (1979)
QED: Photons-Corpuscles of Light (Richard Feynman 1/ 4)
QED: Fits of Reflection and Transmission: Quantum Behaviour (Richard Feynman 2/4)
QED: Electrons and their Interactions (Richard Feynman 3/4)
QED: New Queries (Richard Feynman 4/4)
see on Amazon QED: The Strange Theory of Light and Matter (Princeton Science Library)


(1986) The reason for antiparticles - Richard P. Feynman
see on Amazon Elementary Particles and the Laws of Physics (has images from the slides)

https://iucat.iu.edu/iub/5327621
(1983) Richard Feynman the quantum mechanical view of reality
Richard Feynman: Quantum Mechanical View of Reality 1
Richard Feynman: Quantum Mechanical View of Reality 2
Richard Feynman: Quantum Mechanical View of Reality 3
Richard Feynman: Quantum Mechanical View of Reality 4


(1975) Dirac lecture 1 of 4 - Quantum Mechanics - very clean audio
(1975) Dirac lecture 2 of 4 - Quantum Electrodynamics - very clean audio
(1975) Dirac lecture 3 of 4 - Magnetic Monopoles - very clean audio
(1975) Dirac lecture 4 of 4 - Does 'G' vary? (Large Numbers Hypothesis) - very clean audio.
see Amazon Directions in physics: Lectures delivered during a visit to Australia and New Zealand August/September 1975


Einstein's Universe (1979) - narrated and hosted by Peter Ustinov (with John Wheeler, Roger Penrose, and others)
[this video and the accompanying book by Nigel Calder inspired me to pursue research in relativity]
***proceeds to make a mental note that she needs to watch these videos herself***
These might be more suitable for older kids: who have the sufficient prerequisite maths knowledge to understand them. Or the maths nerds. Again, they'd probably have to initially be screened during lesson time or I doubt that they would get exposure at first (maybe, if people are curious later, they start lunchtime sessions)

It's a great idea! Since I have... quite a bit... of power over what goes on in our school's physics club, I'll see what I can do about trialling video screenings in the next academic year
 
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  • #47
TensorCalculus said:
though all the students are the same age
So wouldn't that mean more students in A level who could potentially participate?
https://www.hillsroad.ac.uk/latest-news/physics-students-achieve-in-the-british-physics-olympiad
https://www.hillsroad.ac.uk/latest-...cceed-in-joining-international-olympiad-teams
https://www.hillsroad.ac.uk/success-stories/nola-guy
(maybe reach out to talk to these three about their experience at Hills?)
With 595 A level physics students, I'm sure there will at least be a better scene than your current school
 
  • #48
Muu9 said:
So wouldn't that mean more students in A level who could potentially participate?
Muu9 said:
With 595 A level physics students, I'm sure there will at least be a better scene than your current school
True.
Muu9 said:
Ah: maybe, but are they passionate about physics or just good at it, that's the question.
Some people do really well on physics olympiads but don't even like physics (e.g. one kid from out school who got into R2 of the BPhO but just sort of did it for fun and went to go pursue Medical instead). I mean I am going to go to hills whether they say it is good or bad (provided I get in) and I know a lot of hills students already but I might reach out: let's see
 

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