Idea 2 for how to break the second law of thermodynamics

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SUMMARY

This discussion explores a hypothetical thought experiment aimed at violating the second law of thermodynamics, specifically through the Kelvin-Planck and Clausius statements. The user proposes a scenario where two bodies, starting at the same temperature, have differing openings for electromagnetic (EM) radiation. The idea suggests that if more EM radiation escapes from one body than the other, it could lead to one body cooling while the other heats up, thus contradicting established thermodynamic principles. The conversation emphasizes the theoretical nature of this concept, acknowledging practical limitations such as the need for perfect mirrors.

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  • Basic knowledge of electromagnetic radiation
  • Concept of thermal equilibrium
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Bobcent
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Hello!

I have another idea for how to break the second law of thermodynamics, and I don't see where this one cracks either. I would be glad if someone could explain this to me.

Kelvin-Planck statement of the second law:

"No process is possible whose sole result is the absorption of heat from a reservoir and the conversion of this heat into work."

Clausius statement of the second law:

"No process is possible whose sole result is the transfer of heat from a cooler to a hotter body."

Here it goes:

First see the drawing below:

vnmdds.jpg


As you can see on the drawing, the right body has a bigger opening for EM radiation to escape than the left body does. The two bodies start of at the same temperature. But if more EM radiation goes from the right body to the left body, than vice versa, with time, the left body will heat up, and the right body will cool down. This clearly violates the second law, see Clausius statement above.

This is a hypothetical thought experiment. I realize the practical problems with perfect mirrors and lenses, but theoretically it should be possible?

Grateful for help!
 
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Some clarification:
If the bodies are the perfect mirrors, then they do not absorb any radiation, and cannot heat up.
 
256bits said:
Some clarification:
If the bodies are the perfect mirrors, then they do not absorb any radiation, and cannot heat up.

To clarify:

The black dot in the middle is the body which emits radiation from being warm. The half circle, and the circle with a little opening, as indicated in the drawing, are the mirrors
 
Perpetual motion machines are not an acceptable subject here - please reread the PF Rules. We let the first thread stand because we had hoped to educate you on why they were impossible, but we will not have a parade of PMMs here.
 

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