Imaginary part of the dielectric function

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the imaginary part of the dielectric function, particularly how it relates to the real part and its physical implications. Participants explore methods to approximate the imaginary part from the real part, the physical models that could describe such behavior, and the connection to absorption phenomena in materials.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the imaginary part of the dielectric function represents absorption loss when positive and gain when negative, questioning how this translates into a plot of the real part.
  • Another participant emphasizes the need for a simple model of a dielectric to understand the relationship between the real and imaginary parts, hinting at classical models involving bound electrons.
  • A different participant notes that the imaginary part is associated with dissipation and absorption, explaining how photon coupling between filled and empty states leads to absorption peaks in the imaginary part.
  • One participant proposes modeling a bound electron as a classical, damped harmonic oscillator to derive the dielectric function, suggesting this approach could clarify expectations for the imaginary part based on the resonance features in the real part.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying degrees of understanding and approaches to the problem, with no consensus reached on a specific method to derive the imaginary part from the real part or on the best model to use.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of the topic, indicating that the discussion involves advanced concepts not typically covered in undergraduate courses. There is mention of the Kramers-Kronig relation as a tedious method for obtaining the imaginary part, suggesting limitations in the straightforward application of this relation.

John Greger
Messages
34
Reaction score
1
Hi everyone,

I was thinking about the complex part of the dielectric function. To my understanding there's good physical explanation of it. is a superimposed description of dispersion phenomena occurring at multiple frequencies.

Say I only have the real part such as the one below, and would like to get (approximately) the imaginary part. How could I obtain a plot of it, by just looking at the below figure? As using the Kramers-Kronig relation is rather tedious if you only want to get a sense of the behaviour.

I found the following statement: " the imaginary part leads to absorption loss if it is positive (in the above sign convention) and gain if it is negative." But I'm not sure how this would translate into a plot of the real part below?

Thanks in advance.
Skärmavbild 2019-03-18 kl. 20.41.39.png
 

Attachments

  • Skärmavbild 2019-03-18 kl. 20.41.39.png
    Skärmavbild 2019-03-18 kl. 20.41.39.png
    65 KB · Views: 1,224
Physics news on Phys.org
For a question marked "advanced" we require you to do a little more. Here is my hint: what would be a simple model of a (say) dielectric that could produce a real part that looks like this? There will be a few unknown parameters, but it should be pretty straightforward. Think physically (and classically) about bound electrons.

Jason
 
jasonRF said:
For a question marked "advanced" we require you to do a little more. Here is my hint: what would be a simple model of a (say) dielectric that could produce a real part that looks like this? There will be a few unknown parameters, but it should be pretty straightforward. Think physically (and classically) about bound electrons.

Jason
Sorry, this isn't a hard question, but usually not encountered in undergrad courses.

I'm very much aware that the imaginary part of dielectric function is associated with the dissipation and thus it is responsible for the absorption. If an incoming photon can couple a filled state to an empty state, there will be absorption. If their a lot of photons which can couple these two states, their will be a big peak in the imaginary part of the dielectric function, because there will be more absorption. From the bandstructure it is possible to get by looking at every k-value and see which photon energthereheir are. Then counting for every photon energy how many times a certain photon energy can be used to absorb a photon leads to. If the bands a parallel, there will be a big peak in the imaginary part of the dielectric function. With the Kramer-Kronig relation the real part of the dielectric function can be calculated.

However, I was looking for a rule of thumb.
 
The rule of thumb is "derived" by using simple models, and that was what I was leading you to figure out. Here is the approach: model a bound electron position as a classical, damped harmonic oscillator driven by the electric field. This should give you a polarization that can then be used to derive the dielectric function. Your plot has a clear resonance-type feature in the real part, as will the simple model. But the model also gives you the right idea about what to expect from the imaginary part. You may also be able to figure it out physically: what do you think is happening at about ##10^{13}## Hz in your plot?

jason
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
12K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
22K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
3K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
11K
  • · Replies 32 ·
2
Replies
32
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
5K