News Impeach Bush/Cheney: Take Action Now!

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The discussion centers on the perceived corruption of high-ranking officials, particularly President George W. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney, with calls for their removal from office. Participants express a desire to hold these individuals accountable for actions such as misleading Congress regarding the Iraq war and other alleged misconduct. Specific charges suggested include malfeasance, high crimes, and misleading Congress about the reasons for war. The Plame affair is mentioned as a potential avenue for charges against Cheney. The conversation also touches on the impeachment process, comparing Bush and Cheney's actions to past impeachments, particularly that of Bill Clinton, emphasizing the political nature of impeachment and the challenges of achieving it in a Republican-controlled Congress. Participants argue that the severity of Bush's actions warrants serious legal consequences, including potential treason for misleading the public about the Iraq war. The discussion reflects a strong sentiment for accountability and reform in government, with some advocating for a revolutionary change rather than just impeachment.
  • #31
kat said:
Andrew Jackson and Clinton...but niether were convicted. Clinton as you know was a Democrat as was Andrew.
Acutally, it was Andrew Johnson (the guy right after Lincoln), not Jackson.
Andrew Johnson was a "Union" part member, or so says this page,
http://www.presidentsusa.net/partyofpresidents.html
he didnt get along too well with the post-civil war congress.
 
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  • #32
Ivan Seeking said:
Nonsense. Nixon was taken down by the mere threat of impeachment and it can be done again. As was evident all along, Clinton's impeachment was political assasination and nothing more, but as with Watergate, this is a matter of a genuine criminal acts of vast proportions by comparison.

You're contradicting yourself.
 
  • #33
Tide said:
You're contradicting yourself.

No I'm not. I'm saying that Clinton's impeachment was a joke; this since those in power now are mostly responsible. But Bush and his gang are in Nixon's class of criminals, and Nixon did go down.
 
  • #34
mrjeffy321 said:
Acutally, it was Andrew Johnson (the guy right after Lincoln), not Jackson.
Andrew Johnson was a "Union" part member, or so says this page,
http://www.presidentsusa.net/partyofpresidents.html
he didnt get along too well with the post-civil war congress.
my apologies..I meant to type johnson... Johnson was http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/aj17.html"
 
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  • #35
The significance of impeachment depends on the Senate trial.

Article. I.
Section 3
...Clause 7: Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.
http://www.house.gov/Constitution/Constitution.html

The only reason that Clinton's conviction was a joke was that everyone knew that the trial was a joke. In Nixons case, no one was laughing.
 
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  • #36
kat said:
my apologies..I meant to type johnson... Johnson was http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/aj17.html"
kat, that's just a cheap shot. Now you want to make the Dems look dirty by association with Johnson, who wasn't a member of the Democratic party. And even if he was elected as a Jacksonian democrat, he was impeached as a stuck-up conservative.
 
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  • #37
kat said:
It wasn't a mere threat of impeachment it was the imminent impeachment that caused Nixon to attempt to save some bit of dignity and resign.
You are toying with words. He was not impeached but he left due to the threat.
Clintons impeachment was based on the same charge that helped send Martha Steward to prison.
Clinton was impeached for lying about his sexual affairs. He was fined for contempt of court and was never sent to jail. This was not a presidential matter and he should have been prosecuted after leaving office. His conviction was a civil and not a criminal matter.

Clinton's shenanigans were orders of magnitude less significant than those of the criminals in power now.
 
  • #38
russ_watters said:
I said charges, Astronuc (Sos, Ivan, et al). Those aren't charges. If you could impeach someone for being an idiot or a jerk, half the Presidents we've had would have been impeached.
Do you really believe the only thing Dubya has done wrong is be an idiot or jerk?
Ivan Seeking said:
You are toying with words. He was not impeached but he left due to the threat.
It was more than a threat--Nixon would have been impeached. And this is only one difference between Watergate and Whitewater/The Clinton Investigations. Clinton was never in jeopardy of impeachment so there was no reason to resign, and indeed he ended up being acquitted.
Ivan Seeking said:
Clinton was impeached for lying about his sexual affairs. He was fined for contempt of court and was never sent to jail. This was not a presidential matter and he should have been prosecuted after leaving office. His conviction was a civil and not a criminal matter.
Clinton's shenanigans were orders of magnitude less significant than those of the criminals in power now.
Good Lord, we have to keep going over this don’t we? How anyone can compare lying about infidelity (which was a personal, civil matter as Ivan points out), and lying about an illegal invasion of another country that has resulted in the loss of American lives is beyond me. IMO this is even more serious than Watergate.
 
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  • #39
Look at it this way...

Bush is on his way out no matter what!

Hopefully we will have some decent candidates to vote for in 2008 unlike we did this last election.
 
  • #40
russ_watters said:
Hehe. You actually believe that?
Please see posts #92 & #93 in the “What can Bushy do to gain back favor?” thread.
 
  • #41
Gokul43201 said:
kat, that's just a cheap shot. Now you want to make the Dems look dirty by association with Johnson, who wasn't a member of the Democratic party. And even if he was elected as a Jacksonian democrat, he was impeached as a stuck-up conservative.
Lol...anyone who is ignorant enough to think that the parties..then resemble the parties today..well..whatever.
By todays standards they were all conservatives.
 
  • #42
Ivan Seeking said:
You are toying with words. He was not impeached but he left due to the threat.
No, you're toying with words. It was not a "mere" threat. It was a definitive threat and very imminent.

Clinton was impeached for lying about his sexual affairs.
Clinton was impeached based on the charges of perjury and obstruction of justice.
 
  • #43
kat said:
No, you're toying with words. It was not a "mere" threat. It was a definitive threat and very imminent.

Clinton was impeached based on the charges of perjury and obstruction of justice.
He was acquitted.
 
  • #44
SOS2008 said:
He was acquitted.
AND?! It's irrelevant to my origional statement!
And you also had pardongate...chinagate...oh my lord...travelgate..and oh my goodness... way to many gates to remember... how much of it stuck and how much was a waste of our money and time? and how much of this is the same...IN THE END?!

And on another note..what's going on elsewhere while this is in the news... While america was focused on monicagate...we had far more serious matters that should have been on the front page and weren't. What's not being reported while this is? If in the end..all we have is accusations and possible charges of obstruction and perjury..then...what a waste!
 
  • #45
SOS2008 said:
...Clinton was never in jeopardy of impeachment...
Duh!
 
  • #46
GENIERE said:
SOS2008 said:
...Clinton was never in jeopardy of impeachment...
Duh!

Impeachment requires a two thirds majority vote . Since Clintons situation was perceived by Democrats as being a result of a political witch hunt by the republicans, there was no possibility of impeachment.

The democrats stood firmly behind Clinton. Many republicans are distancing themselves from Bush.
 
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  • #47
Townsend said:
Hopefully we will have some decent candidates to vote for in 2008 unlike we did this last election.
I second that!
 
  • #48
I third it! I couldn't vote in '04 cause I was only 16 however, I would have voted for Bush because the the alternetive was worse.

It was a choice between Twidle dee or twiddle dum. And Twidle Dee was stupid in my general direction of choice so I supported him.
 
  • #49
So first people complain that we are spending too much money and supplies in Iraq, now that we aren't giving enough? Right :rolleyes:
 
  • #50
edward said:
GENIERE said:
SOS2008 said:
...Clinton was never in jeopardy of impeachment...
Impeachment requires a two thirds majority vote . Since Clintons situation was perceived by Democrats as being a result of a political witch hunt by the republicans, there was no possibility of impeachment.
The democrats stood firmly behind Clinton. Many republicans are distancing themselves from Bush.

That deserves a double duh! Apparently you have no knowledge of the impeachment process re: the executive branch. If you take the trouble to enlighten yourself, you will find it is similar to a criminal indictment and that Clinton was most definitely IMPEACHED.

Personally I took great pleasure in his impeachment, but I would have preferred that he was simply condemmed as per N. Pelosi. After his presidency ended he would have been tried before his peers and found guilty and served a few months in jail. As it was he was later stripped of his law license for "serious miscounduct" purjury and obstruction of justice by a judge he appointed.

DUH!
 
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  • #51
GENIERE said:
Personally I took great pleasure in his impeachment, but I would have preferred that he was simply condemmed as per N. Pelosi.
Nancy Pelosi was condemned?:confused: :rolleyes: :confused:
 
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  • #52
GENIERE said:
That deserves a double duh! Apparently you have no knowledge of the impeachment process re: the executive branch. If you take the trouble to enlighten yourself, you will find it is similar to a criminal indictment and that Clinton was most definitely IMPEACHED.

Personally I took great pleasure in his impeachment, but I would have preferred that he was simply condemmed as per N. Pelosi. After his presidency ended he would have been tried before his peers and found guilty and served a few months in jail. As it was he was later stripped of his law license for "serious miscounduct" purjury and obstruction of justice by a judge he appointed.

DUH!
As much as it would be nice to stay OT regarding a Bush/Cheney impeachment, let's at least try to stay germane to the matter of Clinton and impeachment – or should we say a trial for impeachment, which concluded in:

a. Impeachment
b. Acquittal

While you consider your answer, I'll be out getting enlightened…

From The Kansas City (Mo.) Star:
"It has been a long, humiliating and deeply flawed process. But the Senate finally arrived at the right place Friday when it decided against removing President Clinton from office. …the bar for removing a sitting president is and should remain extremely high. While there is room for reasonable people to disagree on whether Clinton's misdeeds were sufficient to trigger impeachment and removal from office, we believe that the House managers failed to make their case."

From Sunday's Chicago Sun-Times:
"The impeachment trial is over and the vote to acquit was the proper verdict. As we said from the start, President Clinton's campaign of lies to cover up his sexual exploitation of Monica Lewinsky constituted small, tawdry, pathetic, personal crimes that did not threaten our democracy." [underline added]

From the Corpus Christi (Texas) Caller-Times:
"There was no surprise to the end of the impeachment trial of Bill Clinton. The Senate voted against conviction, as expected, and against turning Clinton out of office."[underline added]

From the Chicago Tribune:
"It has been widely predicted that Republicans will pay dearly in the 2000 elections for overzealously pursuing the removal of a popular Democratic president for offenses that most Americans considered essentially private and definitely not substantial. [:rolleyes: ][underline added]

And pay they may, especially if independent counsel Kenneth Starr and his prosecutorial posse persist in their holy war, reminding people of just how relentlessly obnoxious and scary a Republican with subpoena power can be." [underline added]

From the Detroit Free Press:
"And now it's Kenneth Starr's turn. Between the philandering president and the obsessed prosecutor, it is the prosecutor who has been the greater threat to the values of the republic. [underline added]

Now it's time to shut down the inquisition, write finis to the tawdry drama, and send Starr himself back into the private sector, where he can console himself with million-dollar fees from the clients and associates who have long hoped he could bring down Bill Clinton."

From The Dallas Morning News:
"The U.S. Senate's gathering at noon Friday lacked the dramatic suspense that surrounded Andrew Johnson's narrow escape from impeachment in 1868. There were clear signs all week that the Senate would not remove President William Jefferson Clinton from office on grounds of perjury and obstruction of justice. Perhaps the only surprise was that neither charge gained a majority of guilty votes." [underlines added]

From The Times-Picayune of New Orleans:
"After his acquittal, President Clinton committed himself to the ''work of serving our nation and building our future together.""

And that he has (for those whose hatred goes back to the draft and not inhaling, er, um, I think Dubya out-stripped him on this :rolleyes: ).
 
  • #53
Cosmo16 said:
I third it! I couldn't vote in '04 cause I was only 16 however, I would have voted for Bush because the the alternetive was worse.
It was a choice between Twidle dee or twiddle dum. And Twidle Dee was stupid in my general direction of choice so I supported him.
I hope you spend time informing yourself and have a more comprehensive opinion of the candidates in 2008.
 
  • #54
I've got no clue what kat, Ivan and Geniere mean when they that Cinton was impeached.

Yes, he went through impeachment proceedings (as did Johnson and Nixon), but no, he was not impeached...right ? Or am I - like SOS - missing a technicality here ?
 
  • #55
Gokul43201 said:
I've got no clue what kat, Ivan and Geniere mean when they that Cinton was impeached.

Yes, he went through impeachment proceedings (as did Johnson and Nixon), but no, he was not impeached...right ? Or am I - like SOS - missing a technicality here ?
Seems there was an incoherent rant, and then Geniere quoted me instead of edward, and I’m trying to be enlightened — maybe everyone has been drinking, being the weekend and all. :eek: :smile:
 
  • #56
Gokul43201 said:
I've got no clue what kat, Ivan and Geniere mean when they that Cinton was impeached.

Yes, he went through impeachment proceedings (as did Johnson and Nixon), but no, he was not impeached...right ? Or am I - like SOS - missing a technicality here ?

Johnson was impeached, Nixon wasn't impeached, Clinton was impeached!

The house by a simple majority found sufficient evidence to pass the articles of impeachment v. defendant Clinton. As I stated it is a similar to the indictment of a common criminal. Thus Clinton was impeached by the House then made to appear before the Senate for trial.
 
  • #57
GENIERE said:
Johnson was impeached, Nixon wasn't impeached, Clinton was impeached!
The house by a simple majority found sufficient evidence to pass the articles of impeachment v. defendant Clinton. As I stated it is a similar to the indictment of a common criminal. Thus Clinton was impeached by the House then made to appear before the Senate for trial.
But the Senate overturned the decision by the House, no ?

And Nixon quit (during impeachment proceedings) when it became clear what the outcome was going to be.

PS : Here's a link and an exerpt :

With closing arguments completed, the Senate began three days of closed-door deliberations on the two articles of impeachment, with each senator limited to 15 minutes of speaking time. Senate Democrats had attempted, but failed, to open this process to the public via television.

On Friday, February 12, television cameras were once again turned on inside the chamber and senators gathered in open session for the final roll call. With the whole world watching, senators stood up one by one to vote "guilty" or "not guilty." On Article 1, the charge of perjury, 55 senators, including 10 Republicans and all 45 Democrats voted not guilty. On Article 3, obstruction of justice, the Senate split evenly, 50 for and 50 against the President.

With the necessary two-thirds majority not having been achieved, the President was thus acquitted on both charges and would serve out the remainder of his term of office lasting through January 20, 2001.

http://www.historyplace.com/unitedstates/impeachments/clinton.htm
 
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  • #58
Gokul43201 said:
But the Senate overturned the decision by the House, no ?
Correct about the House versus the impeachment trial and ultimate conviction by the Senate. Neither Andrew Johnson nor Bill Clinton was impeached. Nixon resigned before being convicted. Now can we get back to impeachment of Bush/Cheney?
 
  • #59
Gokul43201 said:
But the Senate overturned the decision by the House, no ?

And Nixon quit (during impeachment proceedings) when it became clear what the outcome was going to be.

Jeeez, He left before the impeachment proceedings began, ignoring the possibility they may not have begun, nor was a conviction by the senate a certainty. Whatever, no one, not even the president can quit while the process was underway.

NO! NO! Like all you have to do is read the Constitution:

"The House of Representatives shall chuse their Speaker and other Officers; and shall have the sole Power of Impeachment."

Clinton was impeached (indicted) by the House and later acquitted by the Senate (Jury). His acquittal does not negate the fact that he was impeached. OJ Simpson was indicted for murder and later acquitted by a jury. Does his acquittal erase from history the fact that he was indicted.

A person reading history books 200 years from now will discover that Johnson and Clinton were impeached and that Nixon was not impeached.
 
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  • #60
Gokul43201 said:
But the Senate overturned the decision by the House, no ?
And Nixon quit (during impeachment proceedings) when it became clear what the outcome was going to be.
PS : Here's a link and an exerpt :
http://www.historyplace.com/unitedstates/impeachments/clinton.htm
Nixon resigned before the accusation was formulated, whatever that means in US law. I think the technicality is that the House had not brought formal charges, although one might argue that impeachment proceedings had definitely already begun.

Clinton and Johnson were both impeached, tried, and acquitted.
Impeachment
Impeachment, in the U.S. and Great Britain, proceeding by a legislature for the removal from office of a public official charged with misconduct in office. Impeachment comprises both the act of formulating the accusation and the resulting trial of the charges; it is frequently but erroneously taken to mean only the removal from office of an accused public official. An impeachment trial may result in either an acquittal or in a verdict of guilty. In the latter case the impeached official is removed from office; if the charges warrant such action, the official is also remanded to the proper authorities for trial before a court.
http://www.usconstitution.net/glossary.html
 

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