In a Full-wave rectification plus smoothing

  • Context: High School 
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of a full-wave rectifier with a smoothing capacitor, particularly focusing on the interactions between the capacitor, load resistor, and AC generator during charging and discharging cycles. Participants explore the voltage relationships and current flow in the circuit, addressing both theoretical and practical implications.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the capacitor discharges through the load resistor and not back to the AC generator due to the blocking action of the diodes.
  • Others question whether the current from the AC generator contributes to the total current through the resistor when the capacitor is discharging.
  • A participant highlights that the voltage across the load resistor is equal to the voltage of the capacitor because they are in parallel.
  • There is a contention regarding whether the voltage drop across the load should include contributions from both the capacitor and the AC generator during discharging.
  • Some participants emphasize that the capacitor never fully discharges between cycles, maintaining an average voltage output.
  • One participant draws an analogy to a scenario with two batteries in parallel to illustrate voltage relationships in the rectifier circuit.
  • Another participant explains that the diodes only conduct when the AC source voltage exceeds the capacitor voltage, blocking current flow from the AC source when the capacitor voltage is higher.
  • There are discussions about the nature of ideal diodes and their unidirectional current flow properties.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the role of the AC generator during the capacitor's discharging phase, with some asserting that no current flows from the generator while others believe it does. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing interpretations of the circuit behavior.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific diagrams and scenarios to clarify their points, but there are indications of misunderstandings regarding the timing and conditions under which the capacitor charges and discharges. The discussion reflects a range of assumptions about the circuit's operation that may not be fully articulated.

  • #31
The first question has been answered. Draw a full-wave rectified circuit and you will see that the (positive) current can't flow backward. Kirchoff's voltage law supplies the answer to your second question. The law says that the voltage across a circuit is the sum of the voltages of the series components of the circuit. In the power supply circuit, there are no series connections between the + and - poles of the output of the supply, which applies to the resistor and the capacitor both.. Therefore, the voltage across them will be the same at all times. You said somewhere here that the currents through the capacitor and the resistor will add, and that's absolutely true.
Please note that the load to which the supply is delivering current is also a resistance in parallel to the capacitor and the supply's resistor. So the current out of the capacitor is distributed through both resistances as if they were one. You need to apply the parallel resistance rule to determine the current delivered by the supply to its own resistor and that of the load. That is why resistors added to power supply outputs have high values, in the megohm range commonly, so that most current is directed to where it's needed to do work.
A less formal way to think about it is this: Suppose the voltage across the capacitor is greater than that across the output resistance. Since the current can't flow backward, all of it will flow through the resistance. Then you must consider that Ohm's law says that it will create a voltage drop across the resistor (of the same polarity as the capacitor.) The current flowing out of the capacitor is initially high and the capacitor will lose voltage rapidly. On the other hand, the voltage added to the output resistance by that rush of currrent will be rapidly increasing Thus, the 2 voltages will approach each other rapidly, at which point they will be equal. The circuit will always act to equalize the capacitor and resistance voltages.
 
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  • #32
Mark Harder said:
The first question has been answered. Draw a full-wave rectified circuit and you will see that the (positive) current can't flow backward. Kirchoff's voltage law supplies the answer to your second question. The law says that the voltage across a circuit is the sum of the voltages of the series components of the circuit. In the power supply circuit, there are no series connections between the + and - poles of the output of the supply, which applies to the resistor and the capacitor both.. Therefore, the voltage across them will be the same at all times. You said somewhere here that the currents through the capacitor and the resistor will add, and that's absolutely true.
So far, so good. Yes, one can add currents in one's mind. Kirchoff current laaw is clear in that current from AC source + current ex capacitor = current into resistor load. So if current from AC source = 0 THEN current ex capacitor = current into resistor load

Please note that the load to which the supply is delivering current is also a resistance in parallel to the capacitor and the supply's resistor. So the current out of the capacitor is distributed through both resistances as if they were one.
No. the diodes block current ex capacitor from going into the supply's resistor. I dislike this complication, but yes, real AC sources do have internal resistance.
You need to apply the parallel resistance rule to determine the current delivered by the supply to its own resistor and that of the load. That is why resistors added to power supply outputs have high values, in the megohm range commonly, so that most current is directed to where it's needed to do work.
This is nonsense and it is going to confuse potato no end.

A less formal way to think about it is this: Suppose the voltage across the capacitor is greater than that across the output resistance. Since the current can't flow backward, all of it will flow through the resistance. Then you must consider that Ohm's law says that it will create a voltage drop across the resistor (of the same polarity as the capacitor.) The current flowing out of the capacitor is initially high and the capacitor will lose voltage rapidly. On the other hand, the voltage added to the output resistance by that rush of current will be rapidly increasing Thus, the 2 voltages will approach each other rapidly, at which point they will be equal. The circuit will always act to equalize the capacitor and resistance voltages.
More formally: Q=CV AND V = IR . The wiring between C and R is supposed to have no resistance, so there is no voltage difference over those wires. therefore Vcapacitor = Vload resistor at all times.

Potato, where are you now ? All clear or is the mist getting worse ?
 

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