Inertia & Accelerated Expansion: How Does Machian Explanations Fit In?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the compatibility of Machian explanations of inertia with the current understanding of the universe's expansion, particularly in light of the universe being open and expanding forever. Participants explore theoretical implications, references to historical interpretations, and the relevance of General Relativity (GR) to Mach's principle.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that traditional Machian interpretations of inertia may require a closed universe, raising questions about their validity in an expanding universe.
  • One participant challenges the necessity of a closed universe for Machian interpretations and requests references to support this claim.
  • Another participant argues that inertia is irrelevant to the expansion of the universe, suggesting that nothing moves with respect to its own inertial reference frame during this expansion.
  • A participant cites Einstein's interpretation of Mach's principle, questioning whether the empirical data on the universe's accelerated expansion negates Mach's principle as understood by Einstein.
  • Discussion includes references to Kenneth Nordtvedt's work on frame-dragging effects in GR, which some participants suggest may align with Machian explanations of inertia, though no exact Machian explanation exists within GR.
  • It is noted that a strong Machian explanation of inertia may fall outside the scope of GR, depending on the alternative theories considered.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of the universe's expansion for Machian interpretations of inertia, with no consensus reached on whether Mach's principle is negated or remains relevant.

Contextual Notes

Some claims depend on specific interpretations of Mach's principle and the implications of an open versus closed universe, as well as the limitations of GR in providing a Machian explanation of inertia.

e2m2a
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I understand that some old Machian interpretations of inertia require a closed universe. Now that it has been confirmed that the universe is expanding forever and is not closed, how does Machian explanations of inertia fit in with this?
 
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Why exactly should the universe be closed for 'some Machian interpretations'? Could you give some references? :)
 
Inertia is irrelevant. Nothing actually moves with respect to its own inertial reference frame during expansion irrespective of whether the universe is open or closed.
 
e2m2a said:
...Now that it has been confirmed that the universe is expanding forever and is not closed, how does Machian explanations of inertia fit in with this?...
Still plenty of theories predicting finite expansion eg https://arxiv.org/abs/1409.7073

Could you give some references? :)
 
In Einstein's Meaning of Relativity , he stated: "1. From the standpoint of the theory of relativity, the condition for a closed surface is very much simpler than the corresponding boudary condition at infinity of the quasi-Euclidean structure of the universe.

2. The idea that Mach expressed, that inertia depends upon the mutual action of bodies, is contained, to a first approximation, in the equations of the theory of relativity; it follows from these equations that inertia depends, at least in part, upon mutual actions between masses. As it is an unsatisfactory assumption to make that inertia depends in part upon mutual actions, and in part upon an independent property of space, Mach's idea gains in probability. But this idea of Mach's corresponds only to a finite universe, bounded in space, and not to a quasi-Euclidean, infinite universe. From the standpoint of epistemology it is more satisfying to have the mechanical properties of space completely determined by matter, and this is the case only in a space-bounded universe..."

Again, my question is, based on the empirical astronomical data that the universe is expanding forever at an accelerated rate, does this completely negate Mach's principle as Einstein interpreted it?
 
Kenneth Nordtvedt has pointed out that linear frame-dragging effects in GR appear to be consistent with a Machian explanation of inertia, and (as can be found for example in MTW) rotational frame-dragging effects are also apparently consistent with a "sum for inertia" concept. However, there is no exact Machian explanation of inertia in GR and it seems unlikely that one can be found because it would apparently require G to vary according to the distribution of nearby masses. (Personally I think it is very weird that GR gets so close but can't close the gap). In both cases, the effect relates to the distribution of masses in the observable universe only.

If you want a strong Machian explanation of inertia, you are outside the scope of General Relativity, so what you get depends on what alternative theory you use. Unless you've got peer-reviewed references, that's probably outside the scope of Physics Forums.
 
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