Intermodulation in an Amplifier and Third Order Incercept

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the measurement of intermodulation products in amplifiers and the implications for understanding third order intercept points. Participants explore the relationship between input power, output power, and intermodulation performance, particularly focusing on deviations from theoretical expectations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant measured intermodulation products in three amplifiers, noting that the ratios of intermodulation power to output power varied (3:1, 6:1, and 7:1) and questioned why these ratios differed from the theoretical expectation of 3:1.
  • Another participant suggested that the harmonic performance of an amplifier is influenced by its design and output device, indicating that the third order intercept is primarily useful for comparing amplifiers with mild non-linearity.
  • A participant mentioned that their measurements were based on a computer model that accurately reflected the manufacturer's transfer curve, implying confidence in the model's output despite the observed discrepancies in intermodulation ratios.
  • There was a suggestion that the third order intercept cannot be assumed to be the same across all amplifiers, and that alternative methods, such as measuring intermodulation products from multi-tone input signals, could provide additional insights into amplifier linearity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the consistency of the 3:1 ratio for intermodulation products in amplifiers, with some suggesting that variations are expected due to design differences, while others question the validity of their measurements.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the accuracy of measurements and the applicability of the third order intercept across different amplifier types. The discussion highlights the complexity of amplifier behavior and the limitations of theoretical models.

Who May Find This Useful

Individuals interested in amplifier design, intermodulation analysis, and those working with measurement techniques in electronics may find this discussion relevant.

Natalie Johnson
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Hi,

I have measured a Transfer function curve for an amplifier, showing Input power vs output power. It shows non-linear increases for a portion of the transfer curve (at higher input power).

I also measured 3rd order intermodulation products during the input power range where it gives non linear output. I measured 3 Amplifiers.

On one Amplifier, the ratio of gradients was 3:1 (intermodulation power vs input power : output power vs input power) but the other two were not the theoretical 3:1 . They were 6:1 and 7:1. But from all three I obtained the correct Third Order Incercept as the manufacturers datasheet.

Why might amplifiers have intermodulation higher than the theoretical 3:1 ? If they cant, it must be an error with my measurements?

Thanks
 
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The harmonic performance will depend on the amplifier which depends on the output device and the circuit design. Third order intercept assessment is only useful for comparing amps with mild non linearity. What amp type are you measuring?
 
My measurements are based on a computer model. The computer model takes a waveform an amplifies it according to the manufacturers transfer curve of the amplifier. The amplified waveform is correct.

The intermodulation products are captured from a fast Fourier transform.

So basically, as long as I get the third order intercept correct - my model must be correctly obtaining the levels of intermodulation products. From what your saying, amplifiers in theory do not always have 3:1 ratio?
 
Natalie Johnson said:
From what your saying, amplifiers in theory do not always have 3:1 ratio?
Why should they? The third order intercept is a fair way to asses an amplifier where the transfer characteristic can be characterised with a simple polynomial. You can's assume that the result for all amplifiers will be the same.
Another way of assessing amplifier linearity is to measure intermodulation products from a two or three tone input signal. That can be very useful and repeatable for comparing amplifiers of different technologies.
It all depends.
 

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