Internal energy when filling an evacuated tank

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between the enthalpy of gas in a constant-pressure line and the internal energy of gas filling an evacuated tank. It explores the theoretical implications of this relationship within the context of thermodynamics, particularly focusing on concepts of work and energy transfer during the filling process.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that the internal energy of the gas in the tank is equal to the enthalpy of the gas in the entrance line, but expresses uncertainty about this conclusion.
  • Another participant argues that the gas entering the tank does work on itself as it fills the tank, contradicting the initial claim that no work is done.
  • A different participant points out that during free expansion, the gas does not perform work, suggesting that the filling process may not align with the concept of free expansion.
  • It is noted that once gas has entered the tank, additional gas must do work to compress the gas already present, which complicates the initial assumptions about constant pressure.
  • One participant proposes two approaches to the problem: considering a control volume around the tank and treating the gas in the pipe as a system, leading to a more nuanced understanding of work done during the filling process.
  • Another participant expresses gratitude for the clarification provided by a previous post, indicating that the discussion has helped them understand the problem better.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of work done during the filling process and the validity of the relationship between internal energy and enthalpy. No consensus is reached, and multiple competing perspectives remain present in the discussion.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in assumptions regarding work done during gas expansion and the implications of constant pressure conditions. The relationship between internal energy and enthalpy is explored without resolving the mathematical or conceptual complexities involved.

ThomasO
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This is the example 2.12 from "Introduction to Chemical Engineering Thermodynamics", 6th. ed, by Smith, Van Ness & Abbott:

"An evacuated tank is filled with gas from a constant-pressure line. What is the relation between the enthalpy of the gas in the entrance line and the internal energy of the gas in the tank? Neglect heat transfer between the gas and the tank."

The solution is that the internal energy of the gas in the tank is equal to the enthalpy of the gas in the entrance line.

Although I could solve the exercise, I can't say I've really understood/accepted the result.

Two objections I have to it:

a) the gas filling the evacuated tank is not doing any work, so it seems to me that the product PV (H = U + PV) is of no interest here.

b) I can imagine that the entrance line is connected to a huge tank that supplies gas at the same pressure available at the line and that the filling of the evacuated tank will have a neglegible effect over that huge tank. When the flow ceases, the gas at both reservoir will have the same properties, equal to the original ones of the huge tank. As a consequence, the internal energy of the gas in the tank will be equal to the internal energy of the gas in the entrance line, and not equal to its enthalpy.

Can anyone please clarify which concept I have not understood correctly?
 
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Point a) the gas has work done on it so it enters into the tank. ( from the gas in the line behind it )
 
Since the tank is an evacuated one, the gas entering the tank is submited to a free expansion, and during free expansion, no work is done by the gas, is it?
 
In a free expansion there is no back pressure - the volume increases and the pressure decreases, and temperature stays the same.

With filling a tank, once some gas has entered the tank, any more gas entering into the tank has to do some work to compress that gas already in the tank.
 
I agree with you: "once some gas has entered the tank, any more gas entering into the tank has to do some work to compress that gas already in the tank." and this leads me to rephrase the objection (a) written above:

a) the gas filling the evacuated tank has to do some work to compress that gas already in the tank. This work is dependent on the pressure of that gas already in the tank. However, when deriving the result that the internal energy of the gas in the tank is equal to the enthalpy of the gas in the entrance line, it is assumed that the work PV is constant, with P equal to the pressure in the entrance line.
 
Hi Thomas
I have a little more time to give a more comprehensive answer.

Actually there are 2 ways to approach this problem: 1. by considering a control volume around the evacuated tank, and 2. considering the gas in the pipe as a system.

Since you mention work = PV = constant, that is the system approach.

So, a system boundary is put around all the gas that will enter the evacuated tank, and this will be a moving system boundary.
The gas behind the tank does work on this system, and by moving the boundaries of the system, does work of
W = -P1 V1 ( work being done on the system )

This is the same as if the gas behind the system is acting as a as piston with force F a distance x.
ie W = - F/A xA = Fx.
Perhaps if you consider that a force on a mass can move the mass a distance x at constant velocity if there is an opposing force of equal magnitude, OR accelerate the mass if there is no opposing force. The gas in a system in the line has opposing force so moves at constant velocity. The system gas entering the evacuated tank is unopposed so there should be some change from state 1 in the line to state 2 in the tank.

( PS. do not take that too too far, since gases are not solid objects. )

From the first law: 1Q2 = 2U1 + 1W2
where
1Q2 is the heat added to the system from state 1 to 2 = 0
2U1 is the change in internal energy
1W2 is the work done on the system from state 1 to 2

therefor
0 = U2 - U1 - P1V1

0 = U2 - ( U1 -P1V1 )

0 = U2 - H1

or U2 = H1

Is that how your book derived the concept?

PS. It is usually common to use specific internal energiy and enthalpy, but my latex isn't working.
 
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256bits,

Thank you very much for your time!

Your hints on
"considering a control volume around the evacuated tank and considering the gas in the pipe as a system" and
"if you consider that a force on a mass can move the mass a distance x at constant velocity if there is an opposing force of equal magnitude, OR accelerate the mass if there is no opposing force"
really opened my eyes to how to consider the problem.

I may suggest for another person facing this problem to read also the section 6.5 of Fundamentals of Thermodynamics 6th ed, by Gordon J. Van Wylen, Richard E. Sonntag, Claus Borgnakke, where it's tackled the same two ways you have described.Thomas
 

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