Inverse laplace transform square wave

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the inverse Laplace transform of a function involving a square wave, particularly addressing the challenges posed by the exponential shift in the denominator. Participants explore various approaches to simplify the problem and analyze the periodic nature of the function.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested, Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks assistance in finding the inverse Laplace transform due to the complexity introduced by the e^-20s term in the denominator.
  • Another participant suggests that the inverse Laplace transform may involve step functions based on periodic function graphs.
  • Several participants analyze the function f(t) defined as 1 for 0 < t < 10 and 0 for 10 < t < 20, questioning if it can be expressed as U(t) - U(t - 10) with a period of 20.
  • There is a discussion about using the series expansion of 1/(1 - e^-20s) to represent the function as periodic in the time domain.
  • Participants express uncertainty about how to take the inverse Laplace transform of the resulting series and the implications of the infinite shifts represented by the series expansion.
  • One participant emphasizes the need for an infinite number of shifts to represent the periodic nature of the function, leading to a repeated pattern of U(t) - U(t - 10).
  • Another participant introduces a method for defining a new function f1(t) to facilitate the inverse transform, suggesting that the periodic function can be expressed in terms of its nonzero period.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the periodic nature of the function and the necessity of considering infinite shifts. However, there are multiple approaches and interpretations regarding how to effectively compute the inverse Laplace transform, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the complexity of the exponential terms and the dependence on the definitions of periodic functions. The discussion does not resolve the mathematical steps required for the inverse transform.

magnifik
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can someone please help me find the inverse laplace transform of the following:
http://www.webpagescreenshot.info/img/694286-34201141544am.png

i do not know how to solve for this due to the e^-20s shift in the denominator... is there a way to change this function to make it easier to solve?
 
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in analyzing JUST the function part of this...

f(t) = 1, when 0 < t < 10
f(t) = 0, when 10 < t < 20
F(s) = (-1/s)(e^(-10s) - 1)/(1 - e^(-20s))

is it correct to say that f(t) = U(t) - U(t -10) and that the period is 20??
 
magnifik said:
i do not know how to solve for this due to the e^-20s shift in the denominator... is there a way to change this function to make it easier to solve?
The idea is to use the fact that

\frac{1}{1-x} = 1+x+x^2+x^3+x^4+\cdots

so that

\begin{align*}<br /> \frac{1}{1-e^{-20s}} &amp;= 1 + e^{-20s} + (e^{-20s})^2+ (e^{-20s})^3 + \cdots \\<br /> &amp;= 1 + e^{-20s} + e^{-40s} + e^{-60s} + \cdots<br /> \end{align*}

Hopefully, you can see why that may result in a function periodic in the time domain.
 
magnifik said:
in analyzing JUST the function part of this...

f(t) = 1, when 0 < t < 10
f(t) = 0, when 10 < t < 20
F(s) = (-1/s)(e^(-10s) - 1)/(1 - e^(-20s))

is it correct to say that f(t) = U(t) - U(t -10) and that the period is 20??

Yes. To be precise, F(s) is the Laplace Transform of the periodic extension with period 20 of your f(t).
 
vela said:
The idea is to use the fact that

\frac{1}{1-x} = 1+x+x^2+x^3+x^4+\cdots

so that

\begin{align*}<br /> \frac{1}{1-e^{-20s}} &amp;= 1 + e^{-20s} + (e^{-20s})^2+ (e^{-20s})^3 + \cdots \\<br /> &amp;= 1 + e^{-20s} + e^{-40s} + e^{-60s} + \cdots<br /> \end{align*}

Hopefully, you can see why that may result in a function periodic in the time domain.

i understand that it can be represented as a series. however, i wouldn't know how to take the inverse laplace of the series
 
You're not taking the inverse transform of just the series. You're taking the inverse of

\begin{align*}<br /> \frac{F(s)}{1-e^{-20s}} &amp; = F(s)[1 + e^{-20s} + e^{-40s} + e^{-60s} + \cdots] \\<br /> &amp; = F(s) + e^{-20s}F(s) + e^{-40s}F(s) + e^{-60s}F(s) + \cdots<br /> \end{align*}
 
vela said:
You're not taking the inverse transform of just the series. You're taking the inverse of

\begin{align*}<br /> \frac{F(s)}{1-e^{-20s}} &amp; = F(s)[1 + e^{-20s} + e^{-40s} + e^{-60s} + \cdots] \\<br /> &amp; = F(s) + e^{-20s}F(s) + e^{-40s}F(s) + e^{-60s}F(s) + \cdots<br /> \end{align*}

not sure how i would do this. i know that the e^-ns represents a shift in the time domain f(t-n) but wouldn't there be infinitely many time shifts using the series expansion?
 
  • #10
Yes, you need an infinite number of shifts because a periodic signal has an infinite number of cycles.

Take your f(t) in post #4 and repeatedly shift and add. What do you get?
 
  • #11
vela said:
Yes, you need an infinite number of shifts because a periodic signal has an infinite number of cycles.

Take your f(t) in post #4 and repeatedly shift and add. What do you get?

U(t) - U(t-10) + U(t - 20) - U(t - 30) + U(t-40) - U(t - 50) + U(t - 60) + U(t - 70)...

i think i see your point.. the function will essentially be U(t) - U(t-10) repeated over and over again
 
  • #12
Vela and I are leading you in two different directions for solution. I guess you learn twice as much. Say you have a periodic function f(t) with period p and define a new function f1(t) which is 1 on (0,p) and 0 elsewhere, giving you one nonzero period of your function f(t). So you can write

f1(t) = f(t)(u(t)-u(t-p))

You know that the transform of the periodic function f(t) is

F(s) = \frac{L(f_1(t))}{1-e^{-ps}}

This tells you that when taking inverse transforms a factor of (1 - e-ps) can be suppressed and the inverse will give you one period of the original periodic function. So if you can find the inverse without that factor, just extend it periodically with period p to get the function f(t).
 

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