Irrotational/Rotational Flows and Velocity Potentials

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This discussion centers on the concepts of rotational and irrotational flows in fluid dynamics, specifically addressing the implications of velocity being expressed as the gradient of a potential. The user highlights a confusion regarding the flow velocity described by u_0/r in the theta_hat direction in cylindrical coordinates, which exhibits zero curl yet cannot be represented as a gradient of a potential due to net circulation. The conversation concludes that the condition for irrotational flow may require the absence of net circulation around a point, challenging the completeness of the statement "curl(A) = 0 => A = grad(f)" in certain scenarios.

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  • Understanding of fluid dynamics concepts, particularly rotational and irrotational flows.
  • Familiarity with vector calculus, specifically curl and gradient operations.
  • Knowledge of Stokes' theorem and its applications in fluid mechanics.
  • Basic understanding of cylindrical coordinates and their implications in flow analysis.
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  • Research the implications of Stokes' theorem in fluid dynamics, particularly in relation to irrotational flows.
  • Study the characteristics of velocity fields in cylindrical coordinates, focusing on the u_0/r flow behavior.
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  • Investigate the conditions under which the statement "curl(A) = 0 => A = grad(f)" holds true and its exceptions.
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jeffbarrington
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Hi,

I am a bit confused about rotational and irrotational flows, in this way:

When I do exam questions/problems, there is often a bit at the start of a question on flows about why you can treat the velocity as the gradient of a potential. The only information it gives you is that it is incompressible and irrotational. Now, I would have said that 'irrotational' implies that the curl of the velocity is zero, which I have always been told implies that the velocity can be written as the gradient of a potential. But then what about the flow velocity u_0/r in the theta_hat direction, in cylindrical coordinates? This has zero curl, but the flow comes back round on itself so can't be written as a gradient of a potential, which throws "curl(A) = 0 => A = grad(f)" into doubt. What on Earth is going on here? Is "curl(A) = 0 => A = grad(f)" incomplete?

It seems that the condition is that there mustn't be some net circulation about some point, in which case I would have said 'irrotational' does not necessarily mean zero vorticity as many sources give, but instead means there isn't a net circulation about a point, whilst there is with the 1/r velocity field. I have a feeling this 1/r thing may be causing a breakdown of "curl(A) = 0 => A = grad(f)" because of the flow's unrealistic behaviour as r -> 0.

Thanks in advance.
 
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With a quick look at it, I could not spot any flaw in your initial logic. Perhaps we're both missing something simple, but I think you may be correct, that the velocity function is not well-behaved as r ==>0 may make Stokes' theorem not valid for this case. I will take a closer look at it, but it is a bit of a puzzle. ## \\ ## Editing..This one is interesting. @Ray Vickson Can you take a look at this please.
 
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