Bernoulli Equation for Rotational Flow

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of the Bernoulli Equation in the context of rotational flow, specifically analyzing a "bathtub flow" where water drains through a hole and forms a vortex. Participants explore the relationship between velocity potential, vorticity, and the conditions under which Bernoulli's equation can be applied.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a velocity potential equation for the flow and expresses confusion regarding the resulting vorticity, noting that the curl of the velocity vector should not be zero in a vortex flow.
  • Another participant clarifies that the flow field must be irrotational for the velocity potential to be valid, emphasizing the distinction between vorticity and circulation.
  • A third participant suggests that fluid parcels can move in a circular path without rotating about their own axes, supporting the idea of irrotational flow.
  • A later reply acknowledges a misunderstanding about vorticity, indicating that the presence of a vortex does not necessarily imply vorticity in the flow model presented.
  • One participant notes that while there is vorticity at the center of the vortex, it is considered a singularity in the equation, thus not valid in the context discussed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the irrotational nature of the flow model presented, but there is some contention regarding the implications of vorticity and the validity of applying Bernoulli's equation in this scenario.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the limitations of the model, particularly regarding the assumptions of irrotational flow and the treatment of singularities in the context of vorticity.

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Hi PF! I've been working on a research problem involving fluid dynamics, and I'm currently looking at a "bathtub flow". This is where water is draining through a hole, and we have a vortex. In a paper I have found dealing with this flow, the velocity potential was written as:
\psi = Alnr + B\phi

which gives a velocity profile of:

\vec{v} = \frac{A}{r} \hat{r} + \frac{B}{r} \hat{\phi}

But this doesn't make a lot of sense to me, because this gives \vec{\bigtriangledown} \times \vec{v} = 0, but the flow should naturally have a vorticity, which means the curl should not be zero.

Ultimately, I want to be able to simplify the Euler equation into something like the Bernoulli Equation, but I've never seen a Bernoulli Equation for rotational flow. Can anyone point me in the right direction? I know for irrotational flow, \vec{\bigtriangledown} \times \vec{v} = 0, we get:

\frac{\partial \psi}{\partial t} + \frac{1}{2}(\vec{\bigtriangledown} \psi )^2 + \frac{p}{\rho} + gz = f(t)

Which I don't feel like I should be able to use for this situation...Thanks for any help!
 
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Considering your original equation was a velocity potential, the flow field would have to be irrotational to make any sense at all. This comes from the fact that
\nabla\times\vec{v} = \nabla\times\nabla\phi \equiv 0.
Don't confuse the concepts of vorticity and rotationality, with that of circulation. They are related but different. There would certainly circulation in this case but not necessarily vorticity.

Given that this model is irrotational and therefore conservative and is also steady, you could absolutely use Bernoulli's equation.
 
Last edited:
To expand on what boneh3ad said, think about how the fluid parcels can move along a circular path without rotating about their own axes.
 
Ohh, I see. Thanks guys, I was kinda wondering whether I had misunderstood the definition of vorticity. I guess I kinda assumed since the fluid model had a vortex, there would necessarily be vorticity XD

I'll use Bernoulli's equation then. Thank you!
 
There would be vorticity right at the center of that vortex, but that is a singularity in your equation anyway so isn't valid.
 

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