Is an Electromagnetic Wave the Same as a Wave in Water or Air?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the nature of electromagnetic waves in comparison to mechanical waves in water or air. Participants explore the fundamental differences between these types of waves, the role of photons in electromagnetic interactions, and the relationship between magnetism and relativity.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that electromagnetic waves are fundamentally different from waves in water or air, as the latter involve the movement of particles, while electromagnetic waves do not rely on particle movement.
  • Others argue that electromagnetic waves can be described as waves due to their observable wave-like behavior under certain conditions.
  • One participant expresses confusion about the role of photons in magnetism, questioning whether magnets exchange photons and how this relates to different theories of magnetism and relativity.
  • Another participant explains that photons are the carriers of electromagnetic force, suggesting that electric and magnetic fields are propagated via photons and discussing the relationship between electric fields and magnetic fields in the context of relativistic transformations.
  • There is mention of quantum electrodynamics and its compatibility with special relativity, indicating that both classical and quantum perspectives on electromagnetic fields can coexist within a unified theoretical framework.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether electromagnetic waves are analogous to mechanical waves, and there are competing views regarding the role of photons and the relationship between different theories of magnetism and relativity.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the nature of waves, the definitions of electromagnetic and mechanical waves, and the implications of quantum theory on classical concepts, which remain unresolved.

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Wouldn't an electromagnetic wave just be a wave of electrical energy like in water or in air?
 
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Nope. A wave in water or air is the result of the movement of a large number of separate particles. An electromagnetic wave is NOT this. We call it a wave because during certain observations it ACTS like a wave would.
 
I have heard of magnetism and relativity, and how that ties together, but people talking about photons confuses me. Do magnets exchange photons? That wouldn't make sense to me. Are the theory that describes magnetism as a relativistic affect and the theory that uses photons different theories?
 
The carrier of electromagnetic force is the photon. So electric and magentic fields are both propagated via photons. You can think of magnetism as being a consequence of a relativistically transformed electric field but I am of the recollection that not all magnetic fields can be created by transformations from electric fields. In the end, you still need both electric and magnetic fields (or in the case of quantum theory you work with the primitives, the scalar and vector fields, of the electromagnetic field).

The idea of photons is part of the quantum theory of electromagnetics. Quantum electrodynamics using quantum field theory satisfies special relativity. This means that the same relativistic transformations that allow a classical electric field to give rise to a magnetic field in another frame are valid and at work in QFT. So yes, the ideas of photons and transformed fields are compatible since they are present in a common theory.
 

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