Is cavitation worse at depth? (Fluid pressure and Vapor pressure boiling)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the effects of hydrostatic pressure on the boiling point of fluids and the onset of cavitation, particularly in the context of submarine propeller speeds at varying depths. Participants explore how depth influences cavitation and boiling onset, as well as the implications of maintaining liquid pressure above gas phase pressure.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that cavitation occurs at lower propeller speeds at shallower depths due to the absolute pressure needing to drop below the equilibrium vapor pressure of water.
  • Another participant agrees with the assertion regarding cavitation and seeks clarification on whether raising liquid pressure is analogous to raising the temperature of the liquid, questioning the conditions under which boiling onset might occur earlier.
  • A different participant explains that cavitation is reduced at greater hydrostatic pressures because the force to keep the cavity closed is greater, noting that the vapor within the cavity will be at the vapor pressure expected at that temperature.
  • There is a challenge to the understanding of the second example regarding liquid pressure and its relation to boiling onset, indicating some confusion among participants.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that cavitation occurs at lower speeds at shallower depths, but there is uncertainty regarding the implications of raising liquid pressure and its analogy to temperature. The discussion remains unresolved on some aspects, particularly regarding the second example of liquid pressure and boiling onset.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about real-world scenarios where liquid pressure could exceed gas phase pressure, and there are unresolved questions about the relationship between liquid pressure and boiling onset.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying fluid dynamics, cavitation phenomena, and the effects of pressure on boiling points in various applications, particularly in engineering contexts involving propellers and fluid mechanics.

Timtam
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I am wondering about the impact of the hydro static pressure of a fluid on its boiling point.
The simplest real world example scenario I can think of is the rate/onset of cavitation at a large depth vs a shallow depth.

As we increase the submarine propellor speed to a speed where the adjacent fluid is brought below its vapour pressure would cavitation occur at lower propeller speeds at shallower depths or deeper.

If this is complicating the issue too much then in the standard vacuum boiling example (where we know boiling onset is decreased if the gas phase pressure is continually maintained at a lower pressure than the vapour pressure of the fluid) , conversely if we could iso-thermally maintain the liquid pressure slightly higher than the gas phase above it would boiling onset be earlier for a given temperature?

Many thanks
 
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It would occur at lower propeller speeds at shallower depths. The absolute pressure must be decreased below the equilibrium vapor pressure of water for boiling or cavitation to occur.
 
Chestermiller said:
It would occur at lower propeller speeds at shallower depths. The absolute pressure must be decreased below the equilibrium vapor pressure of water for boiling or cavitation to occur.
Thanks ChesterMiller that makes sense , what are your thoughts on the second example- raising the liquid pressure, is that analogous to raising the temperature of the liquid ? I can't think of a real world example of where a liquid could be a higher pressure at the surface than the gas phase above but if that was the case would boiling be onset earlier ?
 
Timtam said:
Thanks ChesterMiller that makes sense , what are your thoughts on the second example- raising the liquid pressure, is that analogous to raising the temperature of the liquid ? I can't think of a real world example of where a liquid could be a higher pressure at the surface than the gas phase above but if that was the case would boiling be onset earlier ?
I don't understand this question.
 
A cavity is formed when the fluid cannot accelerate sufficiently to fill the volume left by the rotating propeller. Cavitation is reduced at greater hydrostatic pressures because the force available to keep the cavity closed is greater.

The boiling point at high pressure is not important. The cavity formed will contain vapour at the vapour pressure expected at that temperature. That vapour will be violently compressed as the cavity closes, which causes the corrosion problems.
 

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