Programs Is doing a PhD in Engineering Part Time in 8 Years Possible?

[JohnSmith0909]

Is it possible for me to get a PhD in electrical engineering while going part time, one class at a time? The college I'm thinking of going to has a 8 year time limit for PhDs before credits expire. 8 years seems like a long time. This would allow for 16 different classes, not sure if summer term is possible for research but I don't see why not. I know there's independent research, but it just like a regular class I enroll into etc. I plan on continuing to work in industry full time and just take one class at a time. I have been a college student, at least part time, for the past 16 years straight every fall and spring semester. There's still things I need to do and learn though

I have earned this far:
Undergraduate Certificate in Automotive Technology
Associate of Applied Science in Automotive Technology
Bachelor of Science in Electrical Engineering
Graduate Certificate in Systems Engineering
Master of Engineering in Electrical Engineering

 

[Frabjous]

I doubt it. A PhD is a research-based not class-based degree. Even in the places that produce 3 year degrees, this is significantly more work than one class per term spread over 8 years.

 

[Office_Shredder]

I agree, classes are less than half of the total work time for a PhD, and usually less than a quarter I would guess.

 

[Choppy]

I'm sure you can find the occasional, rare example of someone who's done something like this, probably in cases where the PhD was in line with their job, and the employer was on board.

But the fact of the matter is that in order to seriously make any progress on a PhD, you need to put in the time. The average time from graduate school entry to completing a doctorate in the US is about 6.5 years. The classwork is only a part of the PhD, and not even the most significant part. It's all about focusing on the research. And you need to account for the fact that there are a lot of "time crunch" events that happen during a typical PhD... comprehensive exams, candidacy examinations, committee meetings, conference abstract deadlines, conference presentations, etc... these things often require that the students burn the midnight oil to be ready for or meet deadlines.

Let's say you dedicate ~ 8 hours of your day to a full time job (plus commuting time, plus any out-of-work prep) and then ~ 4 hours of your day to the PhD (plus commuting time, plus all those times where you need to prep or or meet a deadline). At best you'll progress at half the rate of a regular PhD student and could expect to graduate in about 13 years. But on top of that, you're dedicating the vast majority of your waking hours to either school or work. This doesn't leave you with much time for adequate sleep, socialization, exercise, fostering healthy relationships, parenting, etc. And what happens when you have to deal with any kind of crisis in your life, even a minor one?

I'm not trying to talk you out of attempting this, but it's important to have a clear understanding of the kind of dedication that's required, and how much the odds are stacked against it.

 

[JohnSmith0909]

Hey thanks guys. Sounds like a PhD is not possible for me then. Being an adult with a home, possible kids or spouse in the future, pets, car, within the next 8 years... I think I need my income from my industry job to sustain these things that I have been accustomed to having and maintaining in my life.

My next question then becomes, could I just take the classes required for the PhD and then leave the program without doing the research and completing the PhD? I would suspect that an unfinished PhD due to financial reasons would be better than no PhD? I could then put something like "Completed all coursework, ## credits, towards PhD except for research" on my resume?

I remember in my undergrad I had a professor who started a PhD but never finished it, so I guess it happens some times.

 

[Vanadium 50]

I could then put something like "Completed all coursework, ## credits, towards PhD except for research" on my resume?

You could. Why would you want to? What message do you want it to send?

 

[analogdesign]

The coursework is the least important part of the PhD, the research is what adds value.

An MS is a solid degree. I don't think taking more courses beyond that will enhance your employability in any meaningful way.

 

[JohnSmith0909]

I guess completion of advanced graduate work in my field of study. Not sure if helpful?

 

[analogdesign]

I guess completion of advanced graduate work in my field of study. Not sure if helpful?

Not really, to be honest. Where I went to school (at least) there weren't really any "PhD courses". You just took more of them. An MS student would take the main course sequence for their focus and then graduate. I took those same courses, plus a bunch of courses in related areas. I also took a minor (take graduate-level courses in a different department). Some of these classes were useful, but I attribute my career success to my research experience and my interactions with my advisors and fellow graduate students. I only took courses for maybe a few quarters beyond what an MS student would.

I don't think the benefit would be enough to justify enrolling in a PhD program with the intent to drop out after coursework. I think you'd be better off doing MIT Courseware or something.

Depending on your chosen area, there are also a lot of Certificate programs in various technical areas. Near me you can get certificates in various disciplines by taking courses through the University extension. Do you have something similar near where you live?

 

[CrysPhys]

I guess completion of advanced graduate work in my field of study. Not sure if helpful?

* Was your MS program a one or two year program? How many courses did you take? Was research required? What courses do you want to still take in addition to your MS courses?

* A partial PhD program might backfire if your goal is to enhance your resume. A manager taking a quick look might conclude that you washed out of your PhD program.

 

[CalcNerd]

I am going to buck the crowd and tell you it is possible. Why do I believe this? I just graduated from an Engineering school with my MS in EE as well (did it in two years, while working full time). I believe that (and if I were a much better student) that they would have worked with me to continue my PhD through this school. Engineering is NOT Physics and not nearly as researched based. Yes, I suspect I would have had to do research, but it would not neccessarily been lab based. Most of the people here have backgrounds with Physics departments that are competetive with restricting their Master's candidates for graduation and only offer the very best candidates the chance to pursue PhD.
Most other programs don't have the luxury of research grant money or corporate sponsership for their programs and have to rely upon a much larger percentage of the graduates to pay their full tuition.
.
With that said, I suspect most Engineering programs will make the effort to let you pursue a PhD if you're grades are acceptable (not neccessarily stellar as would be required for Physics programs) and you're willing to work (and Pay) for it.

 

[analogdesign]

I am going to buck the crowd and tell you it is possible.

Sure it's possible, not one said otherwise. It would be very difficult, with a high chance of failure, and dubious benefits if successful.

Engineering is NOT Physics and not nearly as researched based.

Citation seriously needed. I work closely with about 15 and know at least 50 engineering PhDs. As far as I am aware, not a single one didn't publish papers and complete a research project that added to the engineering body of knowledge. Not a single one. I don't think a University that conferred a Ph.D. without an original research contribution would be accredited. It is really the entire point of the degree.

Yes, I suspect I would have had to do research, but it would not neccessarily been lab based.

Of course, not all Physics PhDs are lab-based, either. Even if you did a software-only PhD (such as in DSP or something) it would still take forever. I worked 45-50 hours a week and it took me 7 years to get my PhD, 5 of which was full-time research.

The only people I know who have gotten a PhD part time (and I do know several) were heavily supported by their jobs with time off to do research, ability to do short sabbaticals, and so on. I knew a couple of people (two to be exact) who tried to go part time in my program partway through (they wanted jobs) and they both ended up dropping out. It was just too crushing.

Most other programs don't have the luxury of research grant money or corporate sponsership for their programs and have to rely upon a much larger percentage of the graduates to pay their full tuition.

Are you sure about that? Engineering is notorious for making people pay for their MS degrees but I don't know if I know of any PhD student (besides the part time ones, I guess) who paid their full tuition. And where do you think the money to do physics research comes from, if not research grant money?

With that said, I suspect most Engineering programs will make the effort to let you pursue a PhD if you're grades are acceptable (not neccessarily stellar as would be required for Physics programs) and you're willing to work (and Pay) for it.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but why do you think so? What would be the benefit to the Professors? They wouldn't have to pay (except for their time) but they also would get an unreliable (because the person would likely quit) long-term student who may or may not actually do actual research? That makes no sense.

If someone came to me and offer to be a free part-time intern in my group and they were a mediocre student, I would likely turn them down. My time (along with most Professors) is seriously oversubscribed and a half-hearted part-time helper would end up being a time sink.

 

[Vanadium 50]

There are a few universities (MIT for example) that offer a post-MS "engineers degree" which is less research based than the PhD. That sounds more appropriate. More appropriate doesn't mean "appropriate", though. It's still not clear to me what the OP intends to accomplish by taking a bunch of classes.

 

[mpresic3]

Years ago, I worked for a lab with a Master's degree. I knew several people who attempted and some completed a doctoral degree, but fully part time (No). First of all, the schools they applied to REQUIRED, a year of residence at the university, where they studied full time. The university granted them credit for the part time courses but, (I do not know if this really happened but I can see where it could), the student may not bewa given credit for the part time courses completed before being formally allowed into the program. I know the first courses taken part time are sometimes allowed by the University as a "special student" who is not supported, or is not formally accepted into the graduate program.
In every case,I know that was successful, the student had a highly regarded faculty as a graduate advisor that worked closely with the worker, and supervised the research.
One problem you anticipated is probably smaller than you imagine though. The eight year time limit can likely be extended if your research is deemed promising, and your graduate advisor is behind you. You can petition the dean for more time and if your graduate advisor is behind you, you might be granted more time.

On the other hand, this PhD, might not get you where you want. In one case, the lab gave the worker a year supported leave of absence. The worker could not complete the PhD in the year. When the worker asked the lab for more time, the supervisors and higher ups, actually said, "The coursework was what was important, especially when the worker could apply the techniques learned in the courses to solve problems in the lab. To them they did not care one bit whether the PhD, was granted. As far at they were concerned, they could care less.

 

[JohnSmith0909]

So my masters was strictly an engineering degree and not a science degree. "Master of Engineering in Electrical Engineering" was what it was called. It was 10 classes and took me five years to complete. No research, just 10 classes. The only difference between it and a Master of Science in Electrical Engineering was that the science degree required 8 classes and then two "classes" of independent research.

I've never heard of a post-masters degree before. Is it similar to a "Graduate Certificate"? Schools in my area offer graduate certificates, but not many of them do.

My goal is to further my understanding and education. Use that knowledge to make myself more employable and marketable.

When you are a college student for 16 years, it's kind of hard to imagine life not being a college student. So I'm looking for further options, but it doesn't seem like there's many.

Are there any universities that offer PhDs for "working adults" with longer time limits than 8 years that would allow me to complete it part time? That's what they called the Bachelor programs in my area "education for adult learners" it's like a marketing thing of "take classes only at a night, work during the day" blah blah. There's less than five in my state. So I would imagine any university that allows PhDs part time, would heavily market this and they would be known for it. Are there any?

I can't find on the MIT website their post-masters degrees for engineering. Can someone post a link?

Are there "post-bacs" in engineering? I know they have them in the medical field. But I'm not sure if such a thing would be a graduate certificate?

Graduate Certificates in Engineering at schools In My area seem to be a step between Bachelor's and Masters. Let me explain. So while Masters degrees in engineering (not science) are mostly 8 classes in your field of study + 1 Graduate Math class (typically linear algebra) + 1 project management course. Graduate Certificates are exactly one half of the 8 classes in your field of study. Meaning my Graduate Certificate in Systems Engineering was 4 classes in Systems Engineering, out of the 8 required for a flow blown Masters.

Also I need to be able to commute there, I'm not willing to move. So would need to be able to drive there.

 

[Office_Shredder]

Have you ever seen a job description or have an employer tell you that you needed a PhD in order to get the job you want?

If so, they probably cared about the research component of the PhD, and not the classes. If you have been told that no, the real problem is you just haven't taken these two specific classes that are necessary, then I agree that you probably should just take those classes and get the job you want, and you should do it with the minimal amount of extra work possible. If you have a good relationship with the employer you might not even need to attach a degree to it, just take the two courses in the easiest way the University will allow and be done with it with no additional certification.

I would be very surprised if an employer required a PhD (and nothing more) because they believed only a PhD would have taken the necessary coursework to understand the job; the coursework for a PhD and a masters degree are fairly similar and certainly you can't just assume every PhD in electrical engineering will have taken a course that no masters degree will have taken.

Generically, doing a PhD to become more employable is not actually a good use of time, so I suspect you have become a bit turned around here somehow.

I think most people in this thread are just concerned that you are about to spend a lot of time and effort to make no progress towards your actual goal, and want to help prevent that. That's why some more information on what exactly you feel like you are missing from your resume and why you think more schoolwork would help would help everyone advise you on what to do.

 

[analogdesign]

I can't find on the MIT website their post-masters degrees for engineering. Can someone post a link?

https://oge.mit.edu/gpp/degrees/masters/engineers-degree/

 

[russ_watters]

SMy goal is to further my understanding and education. Use that knowledge to make myself more employable and marketable.

When you are a college student for 16 years, it's kind of hard to imagine life not being a college student. So I'm looking for further options, but it doesn't seem like there's many.

Is your current job/career track insufficient in some way that you know a PhD will fix? It sounds like you want to continue going to school because you are used to always going to school. I have a couple of friends who were like that, but mostly because they didn't know what kind of job/career they wanted, so they stayed in school until they figured it out.

Maybe no one has told you this yet, but if you have a quality job and are on a viable career path that satisfies you, you can just...stop going to school.

That said, there's worse hobbies to spend a bunch of time and money on and get basically nothing out of except enjoyment. Maybe you could try some others? Golf? Astronomy? I'm currently in a multi-year flight school program. It was that or an MBA and flying is more fun. Though come to think of it, an MBA might be better for my career...

I'm not trying to be snarky here; it really is ok not to be going to school, and unless it's a pure hobby, an adult with a viable career should typically only be pursuing additional schooling with specific career objectives in mind.

 

[gmax137]

Maybe no one has told you this yet, but if you have a quality job and are on a viable career path that satisfies you, you can just...stop going to school.

Plus, after this:

When you are a college student for 16 years

You should have figured out how to study effectively, and be able to learn just about anything you're interested in, on your own. Work-related engineering or otherwise.

OTOH, if you want the PhD for its own sake go for it. I'm reminded of a friend/co-worker who referred to various Degrees as "wallpaper."

 

[JohnSmith0909]

I see so there are no universities that allow you to get a PhD part time? It would have to be online if I can't drive there.

Also sounds like to be honest that a PhD is not possible for me to get at this point. But an Advanced Certificate or Post-Master's Certificate is feasible. Anyone know of any universities that offer one in Electrical Engineering or Systems Engineering fully online?