Is energy conservation violated in this system?

Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion centers on a proposed system involving two cylinders with permanent magnets that allegedly produces more useful work than the input energy, raising questions about energy conservation. The system operates by having the north poles of the magnets face each other, creating internal thrust that causes the cylinders to rotate. Despite claims of higher output dynamic energy, participants emphasize that this model does not constitute perpetual motion, as it will eventually stop. The conversation highlights the fundamental principles of energy conservation and the misconceptions surrounding it.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of basic physics principles, particularly energy conservation
  • Familiarity with the concept of internal vs. external forces
  • Knowledge of magnetism and its effects on motion
  • Basic mechanics of rotational systems
NEXT STEPS
  • Research the laws of thermodynamics, particularly the first law regarding energy conservation
  • Explore the principles of magnetism and its applications in mechanical systems
  • Study examples of perpetual motion machines and why they are deemed impossible
  • Investigate methods for measuring energy input and output in mechanical systems
USEFUL FOR

Physicists, engineering students, hobbyists interested in magnet-based systems, and anyone exploring the principles of energy conservation and mechanical motion.

thinhmingle
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
Energy conservation violation

First of all, I would like to say that this model is NOT a perpetual motion. It will stop eventually. What I want to say here is that the output useful work seems to be greater than input energy

My system consists of 2 elements. Each element is a cylinder put on an axle. There are two permanent magnets stuck on each cylinder, with their north poles are faced outside. In the youtube clip that I will show you below, you can see the magnets of the first element are painted in blue, while those of the second one are crossed with X.

I turn the cylinders slightly so that the north poles of the magnets are faced each other. Then, the thrust between magnets make the cylinders rotate.

A single cylinder on an axle itself is not the system. It is an element of the system, which consists of 2 at all. Therefore, the thrust between magnets is not external force which affect system. It is comprehended as internal force between 2 elements of the system. The thrust from the first cylinder makes the second rotate, and the thrust from the second, in its turn, make the first rotate. Each component act as the cause to make the other rotate, and it acquires the affect from the other to rotate.

While the input work of the system originates from a small force making cylinders moving short arc, and make magnets facing each other, the output dynamic energy is much higher. You can see in the clip that both cylinders rotate many circles, which create output useful work much greater than the work to make the magnets facing each other.Here is the link of my clip

[Video Link Deleted by Mentor]Your comments are welcomed to determine that if energy conservation is violated in this case or not

Thanks

Thinh Nghiem from Vietnam
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Physics news on Phys.org
thinhmingle said:
the output dynamic energy is much higher
How did you measure this?
 
thinhmingle said:
this model is NOT a perpetual motion. It will stop eventually. What I want to say here is that the output useful work seems to be greater than input energy
That is the definition of a perpetual motion machine. We do not discuss them here.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
1K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
4K
  • · Replies 77 ·
3
Replies
77
Views
6K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 39 ·
2
Replies
39
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K