Is Entropy Change Different for Reversible Paths in Ideal Gas?

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the change in entropy for an ideal gas transitioning from an initial temperature Ti to a final temperature Tf along two different reversible paths: one at constant pressure and the other at constant volume. Participants are exploring the implications of entropy as a state variable and how it relates to different paths taken between the same endpoints.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to reconcile the idea that entropy is a state variable with the assertion that the entropy changes differ for the two paths. They question whether the entropy should be the same regardless of the path taken, given that it only depends on the endpoints. Other participants inquire about the definition of the state and whether it includes pressure and volume, leading to further exploration of the conditions under which entropy changes are considered equal.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants actively questioning assumptions about the nature of state variables and the conditions that define the final state of the system. Some guidance has been provided regarding the inclusion of pressure and volume in the definition of state, but no consensus has been reached regarding the entropy changes for the two paths.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the complexities of thermodynamic principles, particularly the relationship between state variables and entropy changes in different processes. There is an acknowledgment of differing final states in terms of pressure and volume, which may influence the interpretation of entropy changes.

eprparadox
Messages
133
Reaction score
2

Homework Statement


An ideal gas is taken from an initial temperature Ti to a higher final temperature Tf along two different reversible paths: Path A is at constant pressure; Path B is at constant volume. The relation between the entropy changes of the gas for these paths is
a) delta S(A) > delta S(B)
b) delta S(A) = delta S(B)
c) delta S(A) < delta S(B)


Homework Equations



delta S = delta Qr / T
Qr = heat transferred to system while the system is going along a reversible path

The Attempt at a Solution


This is one of those checkpoint questions in the chapter and the answer is given as choice a (delta S(A) > delta S(B)).

I'm confused though because in this book, it says that entropy is a state variable and as such, it only depends on the endpoints and is therefore independent of the actual path taken from A to B. But here, we're taking two different paths and yet we're getting that the change in entropy going from one path is different than when we take the other path.

I think the answer should be choice b (delta S(A) = delta S(B)).

It would seem that if you're only dependent on the endpoints, then regardless of the path taken, if you're going from A to B in multiple ways, that the entropy should be the same for all cases.

Where am I going wrong in my thought process? Thanks a lot ahead of time.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
eprparadox said:
it says that entropy is a state variable and as such, it only depends on the endpoints
Remind me -- does state include pressure and volume too? Or does the state involve temperature alone?
 
The final states are different. Though they end at the same temperature, the two paths end at different pressures and volumes.
 
Hurkyl said:
Remind me -- does state include pressure and volume too? Or does the state involve temperature alone?

Ah, I think I see. So if we a system taking two paths to some final state, then that final state is the same for that system only if the pressure, volume, and temperature are all the same?

And if this is true, then the entropy should be the same as well?

Thanks a lot for your quick response.
 

Similar threads

Replies
14
Views
1K
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
1K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K