Is Gravitation by MTW Out of Print?

  • Context: Relativity 
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the availability and status of the book "Gravitation" by Misner, Thorne, and Wheeler (MTW), including whether it is currently in print and the implications of its availability for readers and collectors. Participants explore the challenges of obtaining the book, potential reprints, and the content's relevance in light of advancements in the field of general relativity and cosmology.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note difficulties in finding "Gravitation" at major retailers, with prices for second-hand copies being very high.
  • One participant mentions that Amazon lists copies at high prices, suggesting that these may be old stock from third-party sellers.
  • Several participants report that Macmillan has confirmed the book is no longer being printed.
  • There are suggestions that a new edition may be forthcoming, with some indicating it could be published by Princeton University Press.
  • Concerns are raised about the potential outdatedness of the material, with questions about whether the new printing will include updates or just a reprint with a new preface.
  • Some participants express a belief that the book remains valuable despite its age, citing its mathematical treatment and insights.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of illegal downloads and copyright issues related to the book's availability.
  • Some participants speculate on the reasons for the original publisher discontinuing the book's printing, including technical challenges related to file accessibility.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of agreement and disagreement regarding the book's status and future availability. While some believe a new edition is on the way, others remain uncertain about the details and implications of such a reprint.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention that the book's content may be considered outdated in some areas, particularly in cosmology, but others argue that the foundational aspects of general relativity remain unchanged. There are unresolved questions about the nature of the upcoming printing and whether it will include significant updates.

CJ2116
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Hi everyone,

When I graduated college about 4 years ago I had to, regrettably, sell off many of my math/physics books to pay back my student loans. One of my favorites was Gravitation. For the past few months I have been looking to buy it again, but it looks like all of the major sellers (Amazon, BN, Half.com/Ebay etc.) are out of stock. Even worse, second hand copies are running for close to $300 US!

Does anyone know if there are going to be reprints soon? Even the books' publisher W. H. Freeman doesn't have a website for it anymore.

Thanks!

Chris
 
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Ah, it's been a few days since I checked, but it does at least look like there are now copies for around $200. Still very expensive, though!
 
The new copies are all from third-party sellers, not from Amazon itself. They're probably "old stock." If the book were "in print" and available from the publisher, surely Amazon would sell it directly, possibly with a notice "out of stock, more copies coming soon" or something like that.
 
I emailed Macmillan, and customersupport@macmillanusa.com replied to me with: "The text Gravitation is no longer being printed . Please let me know if you have any questions."
 
It would be nice if they reprinted it in several volumes. My back can't take it any more.
 
The Bill said:
I emailed Macmillan, and customersupport@macmillanusa.com replied to me with: "The text Gravitation is no longer being printed . Please let me know if you have any questions."

Interesting, would be nice if Dover picked this up for reprinting!
 
It's a shame that this classic is not in print anymore. If they don't want to reprint it anymore they could and should give up their copyright. Illegal downloads are already online. So why not making those legal?
 
vanhees71 said:
Illegal downloads are already online.
vanhees71 said:
It's a shame that this classic is not in print anymore

Maybe there is a cause and effect relationship here.
 
  • #10
May be, but I guess that such a book you'd like to have in print and then buy it (at least I still buy a lot of textbooks even when I can get them as an ebook for free, and even legal via the university subscription).
 
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  • #11
Perhaps they are planning a new edition
 
  • #12
The original publisher discontinued printing the book, possibly because after 43 years with many intervening upgrades to their computer systems and mergers of publishing companies they could no longer find/read the files used to print it. A new printing (adding only a new preface and an introduction) will be published by Princeton University Press later this year, 2017.
 
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  • #13
MTWfan said:
The original publisher discontinued printing the book, possibly because after 43 years with many intervening upgrades to their computer systems and mergers of publishing companies they could no longer find/read the files used to print it. A new printing (adding only a new preface and an introduction) will be published by Princeton University Press later this year, 2017.

Good Information. You can preorder the HC from Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0691177791/?tag=pfamazon01-20
 
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  • #14
MTWfan said:
The original publisher discontinued printing the book, possibly because after 43 years with many intervening upgrades to their computer systems and mergers of publishing companies they could no longer find/read the files used to print it. A new printing (adding only a new preface and an introduction) will be published by Princeton University Press later this year, 2017.

Some of the material can be outdated. Is this simply a reprinting of the original content, or is it a 2nd Edition (i.e. partial rewriting) by the (living) authors?
 
  • #15
dextercioby said:
Some of the material can be outdated. Is this simply a reprinting of the original content, or is it a 2nd Edition (i.e. partial rewriting) by the (living) authors?
It is just a reprinting, with a new preface and a current introduction added. No updating of the 1973 text.
 
  • #16
Well, this is still good enough, because the book - as far as I heard - has some great insights into topics which require a greater level of mathematical maturity from the reader of Wald or Hawking and Ellis.
So for a hardback edition - usually very pricy - it should be more than worth the money.
 
  • #17
MTWfan said:
The original publisher discontinued printing the book, possibly because after 43 years with many intervening upgrades to their computer systems and mergers of publishing companies they could no longer find/read the files used to print it. A new printing (adding only a new preface and an introduction) will be published by Princeton University Press later this year, 2017.

That's great to hear. It'll be nice to be able to honestly recommend the book again. Also, I've had good experiences with Princeton University Press' printings. Also, the price for the new hardcover is less in 2017 dollars the price 2001(ish) dollars for my copy of the paperback!
 
  • #18
The Bill said:
Also, the price for the new hardcover is less in 2017 dollars the price 2001(ish) dollars for my copy of the paperback!
For me it shows $45.38. :)) I don't remember exactly what I paid for my paperback copy during my first year of grad school (1975-76), but it couldn't have been more than about $20, which would be $80 or so in today's dollars. Even $80 would be pretty cheap nowadays.
 
  • #19
I also don't see, in which sense the book should be "outdated" nowadays. Of course, there has been great progress in cosmology since the 1970ies, but General Relativity basically hasn't changed since 1916, and "MTW" is more modern in its mathematical treatment than many other books.
 
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  • #20
Thanks for the updates on this - I'll definitely be pre ordering it. Along with Kip Thorne's new book as well!
 
  • #21
vanhees71 said:
I also don't see, in which sense the book should be "outdated" nowadays. Of course, there has been great progress in cosmology since the 1970ies, but General Relativity basically hasn't changed since 1916, and "MTW" is more modern in its mathematical treatment than many other books.

I think MTW anticipated that their section on ADM would become out of date, as that was being developed around the time they wrote the book.
 
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  • #22
atyy said:
I think MTW anticipated that their section on ADM would become out of date, as that was being developed around the time they wrote the book.

What do you mean and why do you think so? The book was written about 10 years after ADM.
 

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