Is hope a double-edged sword in the face of life and death?

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The discussion centers around the complex relationship between life, death, and the fear associated with mortality. It posits that life embodies hope, while death represents a deprivation of that hope, leading many to fear death. Participants explore whether death is truly as terrible as perceived and how to overcome this fear, suggesting that embracing life and its transient nature can foster optimism. They argue that the meaning of life should not be solely tied to its ending, emphasizing that the experience of living holds intrinsic value. The conversation also touches on existential questions about purpose, the nature of consciousness, and the potential for an afterlife. Some express a belief that if life is finite, it should be cherished, while others contemplate the implications of nonexistence and the emotional pain of losing loved ones. The dialogue suggests that personal definitions of death and purpose significantly influence one's perspective on life and mortality.
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Generally,
Life means you still have hope,
Death means you are deprived of hope.

Therefore, death is often a fear to most people.

Is death so terrible, horrible, hopeless?

How to overcome this fear with Optimism? Through religion?:frown:
 
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Death is just absense of life. Nothing to worry about because you won't be able to worry anyway.

Better worry about life. Enjoy it.
 
Originally posted by Saint
Generally,
Life means you still have hope,
Death means you are deprived of hope.

Therefore, death is often a fear to most people.

Is death so terrible, horrible, hopeless?

How to overcome this fear with Optimism? Through religion?:frown:

Overcome fear by embracing life. By accepting that all of us die, and we all have exactly the same amount of time: just this one moment.
 
Ours is a universe of apparent unending change and transformation. Even our definitions of life and death constantly change. If death has a lot of negative connotations, maybe those need to be revised as well.
 
Originally posted by Saint
Generally,
Life means you still have hope,
Death means you are deprived of hope.

Therefore, death is often a fear to most people.

Is death so terrible, horrible, hopeless?

How to overcome this fear with Optimism? Through religion?:frown:

People are afraid of death because they don't know what happens afterwards, and they're afraid of pain, and not comming back to this life.
 
If death is an END to our history,
isn't it Life will be just a Joke, which has no ultimate meaning ?

We know that we were born without our consent, and we die unavoidably; if this is the true fact of life, then why are we here? For what purpose? Just to feel the pain, happiness etc... of this imperfect world ? Moreover, sorrow is more than happiness in this cruel world.

I feel my life is like a buffalo which is forced to work in a padi farm, till old and then die!
 
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"Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more: it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

William Shakespeare, Macbeth

But with life, is it the ending that really matters? Does it matter that we all die, and that what lie beyond, IF anything lie beyond is unknown?

No.

What matters is that we have lived - that the process of being alive is more significant than the ending. What happens after death doesn't give us meaning - just more reason to be rid of our lives. We can only give meaning to life ourselves. After all, if death is the purpose of life, why do we live? The purpose is not the same as the ending.
 
Topics on death are interesting. People always seem to focus on fearing their own death. I, however, do not fear nonexistence so much at all if that is indeed what death leads too. I agree with Alexander that I won't be around to suffer through it, so why should I worry about it?

But what I do find extremely depressing about death if it truly does lead to nonexistence, is when I lose a loved one. In this case I have to continue living and suffering through that loss, knowing that I will never experience the company of that person again. So it is not my own mortality that I fear or associate with negative connotations.
 
Originally posted by Saint
Generally,
Life means you still have hope,
Death means you are deprived of hope.

Therefore, death is often a fear to most people.

Is death so terrible, horrible, hopeless?

How to overcome this fear with Optimism? Through religion?:frown:
Hey, I was never here ... I was always there ...

"We are spirits, in the material world ..."
 
  • #10
Originally posted by Saint
If death is an END to our history,
isn't it Life will be just a Joke, which has no ultimate meaning ?

Vise versa. If you know that there is NO more life after the end of the life, then enjoy this life before it ends! It is THE ONLY ONE which can have a meaning - there is no more. Is not this obvious?

Indeed, if there were life after the end of life (death) (which is prohibited by logic, by the way), then one should not worry much about this first life (=so it does not have too much meaning then), because there will be more life(s) ahead.


On a side note: life has as much meaning as we personally assign to it.
 
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  • #11
Originally posted by Alexander
Indeed, if there were life after the end of life (death) (which is prohibited by logic, by the way), then one should not worry much about this first life (=so it does not have too much meaning then), because there will be more life(s) ahead.

Actually, It isn't necessarily prohibted by logic. It depends on the definition of death you use. If you define death as the end of all life, then yes. But death could just mean the end of the only life we know. Which is this one we are living now. With the latter definition, then logic isn't a problem.

Also, I agree that if we knew this life wasn't the end then we might not make the most of it. But if you were the creator and you knew there was life after death and you also wanted people to make the most of their current lives, what would you do? You would make it so that no one knows for sure whether there is life after death. Kinda like our current siutation right now.
 
  • #12
Originally posted by Saint
If death is an END to our history,
isn't it Life will be just a Joke, which has no ultimate meaning ?

We know that we were born without our consent, and we die unavoidably; if this is the true fact of life, then why are we here? For what purpose? Just to feel the pain, happiness etc... of this imperfect world ? Moreover, sorrow is more than happiness in this cruel world.

I feel my life is like a buffalo which is forced to work in a padi farm, till old and then die!

That, with many responses to these questions, are almost selfish. What if our purpose is like a cat's purpose, just to ammuse some higher being? Or to help others with their existence?
Anyway, even if our existences are ours (which I don't defend or refute) wouldn't our purposes be ours as well then? Do what pleases you. Whether it's helping others, making money, feeling impotrant, feeling smart, or whatever, that could be part of our purpose.
But when people decide their purposes, it is often based on life/sociatal standards, and not philosophical ones. Especially since we decide this when we are kids, and philosophy means little to us. That's why our purposes are things like a good career, raise a family, find happines somehow, admiration by other members of society, and others. If we were to decide our purposes only based on philosophy, things would probably be different.

Back to your original question though, maybe through philosophy. Like some ancient philosopher said (he was one of the big philosophers, but I can't remember his name) don't fear death because the soul is immortal. So, by his standards, only our bodies die. And what purposes do our bodies serve? Whatever you'd like. To help yourself or to help others. But be sure to enjoy your body before it's gone, because, like vegetation, it eventually rots/dies. In terms of your soul, maybe things could be done in our lifetime to help it or use it fully, like being a good person and such.


Oh yeah, and are you saying (Alexander) that an afterlife is prohibited by logic just because of the contradiction of words of there being a life after life ends?
 
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  • #13
If man has no soul,
then everything he did has no eternal meaning,
when time passed, all will be gone!

I always feel I am forced to live my life, because I got no choice but to toil under the sun. And this is meaningless to me.
Though I'll not be so pessimistic and sad till committing suicide.
 
  • #14
Originally posted by Fliption
Actually, It isn't necessarily prohibted by logic. It depends on the definition of death you use. If you define death as the end of all life, then yes. But death could just mean the end of the only life we know. Which is this one we are living now. With the latter definition, then logic isn't a problem.

Define "death".
 
  • #15
Originally posted by Saint
If man has no soul,
then everything he did has no eternal meaning,
when time passed, all will be gone!

What is soul? (You know, different people mean completely different animal by this word, so what is YOUR definition of soul? What object or subject or phenomena do YOU speak about when you use the word "soul"?
 
  • #16
Originally posted by Alexander
Define "death".
Ahh death, the great unknown ...

So where does our consciousness go when we die? Does it just up and evaporate, like that!
 
  • #17
Yes.
 
  • #18
Originally posted by Alexander
Yes.
But why does the conclusion of consciousness, which is our existence, seem so illogical? Can you address this in yourself consciously, and then imagine that "you" don't exist? Why does the whole idea seem so strange?
 
  • #19
Can you clarify?
 
  • #20
Originally posted by Alexander
Can you clarify?
I think most people have a sense about life, in the conscious sense, that we're not supposed to die. You ever feel that way? Or, feel it would be nice to extend our lives even further than we can currently? What is it about life that maintains the sense that we should "carry on," even in spite of death? ... Is this any more clear? Probably not ...

Do you ever feel like you were meant to live forever? And, is this a feeling that can be associated with one's consciousness?
 
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  • #21
Originally posted by Alexander
Define "death".

Death is the end of life as we know it.
 
  • #22
If iwant to define life into two categories,
1) life before death,
2) life after death.

Then , death is a Gateway to life after death, it is not ultimate end!
 
  • #23
Originally posted by Saint
Generally,
Life means you still have hope,
Death means you are deprived of hope.

Therefore, death is often a fear to most people.

Is death so terrible, horrible, hopeless?

How to overcome this fear with Optimism? Through religion?:frown:

hope is posion, it hurts the mind, only we don't realize it. think of it in terms of the sang "don't get your hopes up" thsi is so true, because hope really hurts people. it is like drugs, right now you are happy because you are high (or you have hope, there is still a chance) but in the long run you are hurting your body (when things don't work out, you are more depressed than you were when you were just hoping. so if life=hope, then life is far more depressing than i ever imagined.
 

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