Is it electric charge or only the friction?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the phenomenon of generating sparks when rubbing stones together, specifically questioning whether this is due to static charge accumulation or merely the mechanical energy from friction being converted into heat energy. The scope includes historical methods of fire-starting and the mechanics behind friction-related ignition.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant, Jayesh, questions whether static charge accumulation occurs when rubbing stones or if the sparks are solely due to mechanical energy from friction.
  • Another participant mentions that rubbing stones is unlikely to start a fire, contrasting it with the flint and steel method, which is known to produce sparks.
  • Jayesh clarifies that he is interested in primitive fire-starting methods involving stones, suggesting a historical perspective.
  • A participant discusses the bow drill method used by Native Americans, highlighting that friction generates heat sufficient to ignite dry materials, though they express unfamiliarity with stone-based fire-starting methods.
  • Another participant notes the historical context of fire-starting techniques, mentioning that early fire sources likely included lightning and volcanic activity, and suggests that flint-on-flint techniques may have been used.
  • Several participants share links to resources about flint-on-flint fire-starting methods, indicating that while these methods generate sparks, flint-on-steel is generally easier.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the effectiveness of rubbing stones for fire-starting, with some emphasizing the historical context and methods while others focus on the mechanics of spark generation. No consensus is reached regarding the role of static charge versus friction in this context.

Contextual Notes

Participants note a lack of comprehensive information on ancient fire-starting methods and the historical use of stones, indicating that the discussion may benefit from further exploration of anthropological perspectives.

jayeshtrivedi
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
Hi all,

When we rub two stones and get a spark , is there any chance of static charge accumulation or it is just the mechanical energy of friction is transferred in form of heat energy.

Thanks in advance.

Jayesh.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Hi,

Thanks and sorry for late reply.

But what I am asking is that in primitive stage of civilization human being are generating fire by rubbing the stones only.

I am asking for this phenomenon.
 
Native Americans used a bow to twirl a wooden rod against another piece of wood with a matching hole; friction would heat the wood. When they judged it was hot enough they would drop in small pieces of dry material which would easily catch fire; this was then transferred ...

see http://www.wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/fire/bowdrill/pmoc/basicbowdrill.html

This is a friction technique.

I am not familiar with the use of stones for starting fires - except for flint and iron.

If you can provide a good reference, I can determine how the fire was started.
 
I am not familiar with the use of stones for starting fires - except for flint and iron.

That's ok for back to the iron age. But going back further than that required other methods

It seems the Nth American Indian method of a "wood drill has been around for a much longer time.

There's a severe lack of online info on the subject. First uses of fire seem to have been thought to have come from lightning started fires and volcanic sources.
I read that there are hints of flint on flint as a started as well as a result of the seeing the sparks created by the "carving" of flint tools

a bit of a digression from the original post but it would be great for a topic in another part of the forum if we had any anthropologists at PF ?? :smile:

cheers
Dave
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
2K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
2K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
7K
  • · Replies 58 ·
2
Replies
58
Views
6K