Is K the cause of high voltage and current in my simulation?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a simulation issue in Multisim related to high voltage and current outputs in a circuit involving inductors and coupling coefficients. Participants explore the implications of different coupling values and energy conservation in inductive circuits.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant reports high voltage and current in their simulation and questions whether the coupling coefficient (K) is the cause.
  • Another participant notes that energy input/output does not sum to zero, suggesting that high coupling values lead to increased voltage.
  • A participant identifies that setting K3 to zero may be problematic and proposes that the minimum coupling should be at K1K2.
  • There is a discussion about the possibility of having positive current in a transformer and the implications for energy conservation.
  • One participant expresses confusion over the energy dynamics in the circuit, particularly during transient states, and questions the accuracy of the simulation software.
  • Another participant concludes that the energy is stored in the inductances and that the simulation's initial conditions may account for the observed behavior.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the implications of the coupling coefficients and energy conservation in the circuit. Some express confusion and seek clarification, while others propose solutions or explanations based on their interpretations of the simulation results.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention specific coupling values and their effects on simulation outcomes, but there is no resolution on the underlying assumptions or the validity of the simulation results. The discussion includes references to energy conservation principles and transient behavior, which remain unresolved.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to individuals working with circuit simulations, particularly those involving inductors and energy transfer in electrical engineering contexts.

rf74
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Hi,

I have a problem with my simulation (Multisim). I don't find the error. Voltage and current increase very high in a short time. It's only 3 selfs with coefficient at 0.9 for L1/L2 and for L2/L3. K is at 0 for L1/L3. I give image for the circuit and the result of simulation. The problem come from K ?

K1 LL1 LL2 0.9
K2 LL2 LL3 0.9

thanks
 

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Last edited:
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Hi,

Someone can help me ? I don't find my error. If I'm looking at energy input/output, the sum is no 0. I simulated with R1 and R2 at 1 MOhm but the circuit give high voltage. If K1 and K2 are under 0.5 it's ok, but with K1=K2=0.9 and K3=0, voltages at R1/R2 increase very high. I tested with another software and it's the same result.

K1 LL1 LL2 0.9
K2 LL2 LL3 0.9
K3 LL1 LL3 0.0001 or 0
 

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Hi,

I found the problem, it's because I let K3=0, I can't do that, the minimum must be at K1K2.

I find a circuit where I can have a single sign current from a sinusoidal source, and the sum of energy is not zero. But is it possible in a self to have a positive current ?

I give you the circuit, I tested with Multisim and LTSpice, it's the same result.
 

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Hi,

I simplify the circuit, it can be like:

vV3 14 9 dc 0 ac 1 0
+ sin(0 {90*1.414213562} 60 0 0 60)
vV2 0 6 dc 0 ac 1 0
+ sin(0 {90*1.414213562} 60 0 0 60)
rR4 11 4 1
K2 LL2 LL3 0.9
rR2 10 9 1
lL3 13 0 1
lL2 5 0 1

There is a positive current in transformer, the energy from the source is +V*I -V*I in a period, like I is always positive, the energy from source is 0. Like that it's logical, but energy must be conserved so it is a problem from Spice, the current at start is not like that in reality ? I think it could like that at start with an external DC source no ? I tested with Multisim and LTSpice. The difference of energy is 1200 J in a second. This is only in the transitive time. After current is at 0, no energy at output and no energy at input. If K=1 the energy is conserved, it's only when I let K=0.9 or 0.5. Angle phase must be at 60° for example, don't let it at 0°. Someone can test for verify my study ? It is the energy inside 1/2LI² ? At start I=110A so the energy inside selfs is LI²=121kJ.

If I let:

vV3 14 9 dc 0 ac 1 0
+ sin(0 {90*1.414213562} 60 0 0 60)

*## Multisim Component V2 ##*
vV2 0 6 dc 0 ac 1 0
+ sin(0 {90*1.414213562} 60 0 0 240)

The energy at outputisnot the same.

Thanks for your help
 

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Hi,

I understood, it's because the energy is inside inductances ! Software give start values for current and there is energy inside inductances. All is fine !

bye
 
Well done rf74. You constructed a whole, satisfactory thread with question, discussion and answer, all by your self!

In the old days, before the Internet, this was how we all used to solve problems. lol
 
sophiecentaur said:
Well done rf74. You constructed a whole, satisfactory thread with question, discussion and answer, all by your self!

In the old days, before the Internet, this was how we all used to solve problems. lol

But it's 11 days of hard work . lol
 

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