Help with LTSPICE on a high frequency circuit

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around simulating a high-frequency circuit using LTSPICE, specifically focusing on the effectiveness of two series capacitors in passing high-frequency low-voltage AC signals. Participants explore the behavior of capacitors and inductors in a non-PCB toroidal loop configuration, with an emphasis on understanding energy transfer and potential losses in the circuit.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks advice on simulating a circuit with a self-generating coil and two series capacitors, questioning the effectiveness of capacitive reactance at high frequencies (1MHz to 500MHz).
  • Another participant suggests attaching a text file for LTSPICE simulations and provides examples of how to set up the simulation parameters.
  • A participant emphasizes the importance of accurately modeling components and PCB layout due to parasitic elements that affect high-frequency performance.
  • One participant clarifies that their setup involves a toroidal loop rather than a PCB, describing the configuration of the capacitors and inductor, and expresses a desire to understand the capacitors' behavior and energy losses.
  • Another participant notes the absence of specified series resistance in the circuit and questions how energy is input into the system, discussing resonance and damping effects.
  • Concerns are raised about the potential transmission line effects at high frequencies due to the large plate size of the capacitors, suggesting that geometry and materials are crucial for performance.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the simulation setup and the factors affecting circuit performance, indicating that multiple competing views remain regarding the effectiveness of the capacitors and the overall circuit behavior. The discussion does not reach a consensus on the best approach to model the circuit accurately.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of specified series resistance, the need for detailed component modeling to account for parasitics, and the absence of clear energy input definitions in the circuit setup.

artis
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Hi, can you please tell me how would I be able to determine the effectiveness of a specific circuit, see in the attached spice file I tried to simulate a circuit , my secondary side is a self generating coil which in spice I had to simulate with mutual inductors aka a transformer, my basic idea is I want to understand what would be the effectiveness of two series capacitors at passing through high frequency low voltage AC.
I sort of simulated my circuit but got some weird results that I don't understand.I have also attached a paint image where I have only the real physical parts of my real circuit, a generator coil which is connected into a loop with two capacitors in series.
I need to determine whether I will be able to have any useful energy in the loop, my frequency is high it starts from 1Mhz and I don't have a clearly defined upper limit but let's assume 500Mhz. I just want to understand how effective the capacitor capacitive reactance will be at these frequencies and will any signal get through.
Any advice how to simulate or calculate this?

https://failiem.lv/u/kqbhugcn#sign_up
here is the asc LTspice file as I couldn't upload it here.
 

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Engineering news on Phys.org
You can attach a text file to a post on this forum. LTspice uses ASCII files, so add .txt as an extra extension to the file before posting. Remove the extra extension before running with LTspice.
Attached are a couple of examples to get you started.

AC 1.0 defines a source of excitation.
Kt couples L1 to L2, to make a transformer with coupling coefficient = 1.0
.ac directs analyse frequency response with 1000 points per decade, from 1 MEG to 100MEG.
 

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artis said:
I need to determine whether I will be able to have any useful energy in the loop, my frequency is high it starts from 1Mhz and I don't have a clearly defined upper limit but let's assume 500Mhz.
When you say "high frequency" simulation, that raises important considerations. To get accurate simulations (especially up to 500MHz), you will need to model the components (and the PCB layout) more completely. Inductors have parasitic parallel capacitance and series resistance, and capacitors have parasitic series inductance and parallel leakage resistance/loss. You will need to consult the datasheets for the parts you are considering to try to get values for these parasitics so that you can make your SPICE model more realistic.

Datasheets for jellybean parts may not have information about these parasitics, but datasheets for parts that are intended for higher frequency operation should have them. If not, you may need to make the measurements yourself to refine your SPICE models.
 
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Oh I should have mentioned that it's not a pcb , it's a toroidal shaped loop where the air inductor is one part of the loop while the capacitors are another part, they are simple parallel flat surfaces much like a parallel plate capacitor, the whole energy is contained only in the E field between the plates and the B field in the toroid, (the toroid loop is the inductor)

Now I have no problems of understanding how the loop could perform but I haev problems of understanding how the capacitor capacitive reactance would perform and how much energy would be wasted. So I specifically would like to understand the behavior of the capacitor.
Since it's not an ordinary capacitor with leads but rather a sheet of metal attached to the loop at all points of the side of the sheet I think it's ESR should be low , the question I get is mostly about the potential losses for a low voltage (2-5v amplitude) AC sine to pass through.
 
You have specified the 1uF capacitance; also that an inductor is present; but not the series resistance.

You have a circuit without an input or an output. It looks like an isolated Pi low pass filter element. To model that circuit requires an energy input. Where does that energy come from and how is it coupled into the circuit?

As an isolated circuit, when the positive reactance of the inductor, plus the negative reactance of the two series capacitors, sums to zero, the circuit will be resonant. That circuit resonance will be damped by the unspecified series resistance.

artis said:
... , the question I get is mostly about the potential losses for a low voltage (2-5v amplitude) AC sine to pass through.
Amplitude is irrelevant for linear circuits. What do you mean by “pass through”. As a series circuit the energy stored in the capacitor will pass through the inductor twice per cycle. The voltage on one capacitor will be opposite the voltage on the other, they in anti-phase.

The shape and construction of the inductor will be most important in determining the Q of the resonant circuit, the number of cycles or the time it takes for any resonance to decay.

Your flat plate capacitors with low ESR are specified as 1uF, which is a very big plate with a small separation from what must be a bigger common ground plane. With plates that large there will probably be transmission line effects at HF. Geometry and materials are very important.

artis said:
So I specifically would like to understand the behavior of the capacitor.
Then specify the size, shape, separation and material of the plates.
 
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