Is Organic Chemistry too difficult for physics majors?

[flying fish]

Hello,

I am a physics undergrad...getting ready for my final semester this summer. I have to take a chemistry class (actually, anything above a first General Chemistry class). It just so happens that the ONLY such Chem class they offer (small school) during my final semester is Organic Chem 1.

(On that note, my school has two versions of Org Chem, one being the dumbed down "Industrial Org. Chem", for engineers interested in polymers and stuff. Then there is "Org Chem 1", which is the first full blown Organic Chem for Chem majors, and supposedly pretty intense. Only one of them is being offered during my last term, which is the harder one)

So my options are
1) Take Organic Chem 1 (Which I've been advised not to, but they already agreed to let me into if I want)
2) Take a Chem class out as a guest student.
3) Both 1 and 2 ("fail-safe"!)
4) Don't graduate. Who the hell cares about having a BS in physics anyway? I don't need a degree to sell T shirts on the beach...

I actually do want to take the class, but it does scare me.

So now that I'm done with my rant, is it a bad idea for physics majors to take hard core chemistry class? Any experiences or relevant stories?

 

[Borek]

If you don't feel like you are fluent in GenChem 101 trying Organic Chemistry can be traumatic.

 

[flying fish]

Gen Chem 1 was an easy A for me...but that was a long time ago and I probably am a little rusty by now. I guess part of the reason why it worries me is because the students that I talked to about it (chem majors) tell me that the class will bring me to my knees in tears (as it did them...apparently). May be partly due to the prof who teaches it (A guy that I met before while being a Lab rat for a physics professor - awesome/hilarious guy to talk to - but his students say he is quite demanding).

I'm guess I'm trying to figure out whether I should pursue an outside chemistry class or risk it with this version of Org. Chem. I also wonder if it is a topic that I can "review" before hand so that I have some idea what's going on. Well, I suppose in theory you can do that with any topic...

 

[chemisttree]

If you made it through thermo, you shouldn't have any problem with Organic I. You'll probably just fly through it. It doesn't hurt that the professor knows you and you think is an awesome hillarious guy. He sounds to be very approachable in your case.

 

[flying fish]

I'm almost through the Thermo & Stat Mech class now and doing pretty well (was much easier than Quantum Mech, I think). I take it there is a lot of thermo in Org chem?

 

[Borek]

No, organic is completely different. Much lighter in terms of math (or should I write no math at all?), much heavier in terms of things to memorize. Doesn't mean it is only about memorizing, there are plenty of mechanisms that you have to visualise for yourself and understand them. In many cases they are pretty interesting in terms of what is happening to atoms/structure/configuration but awfully fuzzy when it comes to quantitative description.

OK, there is no quantitative description, so it is not even fuzzy

 

[signerror]

The organic chemistry course is very intense, time-consuming, and it has very little overlap or relevance with physics research. It is absolutely geared towards chemists - the main focus is synthetic techniques for research and industry. Your most useful option is a high-level physical chemistry course: not the lower level ones which introduce QM and thermodynamics (these will be redundant), but the higher level ones that deal with computational QC and spectroscopy. These are pretty fundamental and relevant subjects, and overlap significantly with physics.

If you made it through thermo, you shouldn't have any problem with Organic I. You'll probably just fly through it.

Nonsense.

 

[flying fish]

That sounds more like the Description of organic chem that I heard from the people around here (intense and time consuming). Organic Chem was not my first choice of class, but it is actually my only choice apart from trying to find a class to take somewhere else. We are a very small school (2500 total in opposite rotations, so only like 1200 students at a time). So the course offerings are only what they need for their chem students.

It might have some (at least small) relevence to the company I have been interning at - we apparently will be developing vibrational spectrometers (FT-IR/ FT-Raman) for bio-detection sensors which of course involves interaction of light with various organic molecules.

 

[Borek]

Spectroscopy... While organic chem won't hurt, some more QM will be probably more usefull.

 

[chemisttree]

I'm almost through the Thermo & Stat Mech class now and doing pretty well (was much easier than Quantum Mech, I think). I take it there is a lot of thermo in Org chem?

Not much thermo in Organic Chem unless you count the energy diagrams you will examine. You should have an intuitive feel for about half of the course. The other half isn't too much different than the level of effort you put into your thermo/stats. class. You also mentioned that the intro Chem course was an easy A for you. It sounds like you will also ace Organic I. Here is one Syllabus I found for Organic I.

Course Leaning Objectives:
Chapter 1: Electronic Structure and Bonding/ Acids and Bases
Chapter 2: An Introduction to Organic Compounds
Chapter 3: Alkenes: Structure, Nomenclature, and an Introduction to Reactivity
Chapter 4: Reactions of Alkenes
Chapter 5: Stereochemistry
Chapter 6: Reactions of Alkynes
Chapter 7: Electron Delocalization and Resonance/ Reactions of Dienes
Chapter 8: Substitution Reactions of Alkyl Halides
Chapter 9: Elimination Reactions of Alkyl Halides
Chapter 10: Alcohols, Ethers, Epoxides
Chapter 11: Reactions of Alkanes
Chapter 12: Mass Spectrometry and Infrared Spectroscopy

...and another...

I. Introduction, review of bonding and Lewis structures. Review resonance and molecular shape, drawing structures
II. Review hybridization, electronegativity, bond/molecule polarity, Brønsted acids/bases, pKa, equilibrium in acid-base reactions, Structure & acidity, common acids/bases, Lewis acids/bases
III. Functional groups, intermolecular forces, functional groups and reactivity.
IV. Naming continued, fossil fuels, physical properties, Oxidation of alkanes, lipids part 1,
V. Conformations of acyclic alkanes, intro to cycloalkanes, chirality.
VI. Assigning with R or S, diastereomers, meso compounds, isomers.
VII. Bond strengths, thermodynamics, energy level diagrams Kinetics, activation energy, rates.
VIII. Leaving groups, nucleophiles, substitution mechanisms.
IX. SN2 and SN1 mechanisms, stereochemistry of SN2 and SN1 Carbocation stability.
X. Elimination mechanisms, E2, Zaitsev’s rule, E1, E2 stereochemistry.
XI. Preparation and reactions of alcohols/ethers/epoxides.
XII. Cation rearrangements, converting alcohols to alkyl halides. Reactions of ethers and epoxides. Intro to alkenes, naming, physical properties, lipids part 2
XIII. Prep. of alkenes, HX addition, Hydration, halogenation, stereochemistry
XIV. Hydroboration-oxidation, remembering reactions, synthesis.
XV. Reactions of acetylide anions, synthesis.

...and...

Ch. 1 Introduction and Review
Ch. 2 Structure and Properties of Organic Molecules
Ch. 3 Structure and Stereochemistry of Alkanes
Ch. 4 The Study of Chemical Reactions
Ch. 5 Stereochemistry
Ch. 6 Alkyl Halides: Nucleophilic Substitution and Elimination
Ch. 7 Structure and Synthesis of Alkenes
Ch. 8 Reactions of Alkenes
Ch. 10 Structure and Synthesis of Alcohols
Ch. 11 Reactions of Alcohols

Most students get hung up on chirality and reaction mechanisms. Can you handle things in 3D? Can you remember stuff?

I wouldn't worry.