Is Starting Smoking Worth the Potential Health Risks?

[Evo]

If I had to choose a religion, it would probably be the Ainu

Otter

Why it is responsible for man's imperfect nature, and why you should be careful about eating its head

"The otter's head must not lightly be used as an article of food, for unless people are very careful they will, if they eat it, become as forgetful as that creature. And hence it happens that when an otter has been killed the people do not usually eat the head.

"But if they are seized with a very strong desire for a feast of otter's head, they may partake thereof, providing proper precautions are taken. When eating it the people must take their swords, knives, axes, bows and arrows, tobacco boxes and pipes, trays, cups, garden tools, and everything they possess, tie them up in bundles with carrying slings, and sit with them attached to their heads while in the act of eating ... If this method be carefully adhered to, there will be no danger of forgetting where a thing has been placed, otherwise loss of memory will be the result."

This is one you should look into, it will at least take your mind off of your problems.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/hokkaido/legends.html

Have you seen the moonwalking manakin bird?

 

[Danger]

Surrealist, you are prompting me to dump some **** that I don't usually publicize. I only hope that my public embarrassment can be of help to you. It's not really that much of a sacrifice, since the people here who know my true identity are friends that I would trust with my life.
For one thing, any idiot who wants to hang out a shingle can be a 'psychotherapist'; there's no regulation. Stay away from any new-age gurus or herbalists or aromatherapists or any of that bull****. Find a good psychiatrist (who, by definition, has to have an MD). If you absolutely have to, settle for a certified clinical psychologist. (But remember that Dr. Phil is one of those, and he's a total typical Texas bully-boy
****ing fruitcake.)
Church-wise, I would recommend Unitarian-Universalist. My old man was an agnostic, and also a preacher for that denomination. Other than an occassional prayer or hymn, they're pretty much just a community group like any social club. I'm a semi-militant atheist myself, but there is at least one member here that I admire intensely, who is a Unitarian. Perhaps s/he will approach you about it. It's the least religious religion on the planet. (My dad got religious education kicked out of the Ontario school system. )
By the definition of 'alcoholic' that I saw listed, I'm so far off of the chart that I should be in a lab somewhere. I have anywhere from 4 to 14 beers every day. Average is probably about 6. This being a weekend, and Saturday being 'take a beer to work' day, I had 3 for breakfast, 6 for my extended lunch, and am on the 4th or 5th since getting home. It's only a quarter to 9, so I'll have at least 4 more before hitting the sheets.
I am, incidentally, on Wellbutrin and Cilaxis, one each per day. They don't do much to curtail the drinking (in fact, they seem to increase it), but I was down to as few as 3 cigarettes a day for a while, and am now back up to about 2/3 pack. That's still better than the 2 packs that I was on before. Mainly, however, I for very good reason refer to them as my 'I don't want to kill anybody today' pills. If you're okay to start with, they can destroy your mind. Mine was destroyed to start with, and these suckers made life worth living again.

 

[Ki Man]

Smoking is like like investing in a suicidal savings account.

 

[Danger]

Good one, Ki. I haven't heard that before, but it's too true.

 

[Huckleberry]

If you want to make the biggest mistake you've ever made, then go ahead and start smoking. Think about how much fun it will be spending the rest of your life trying to quit.

 

[Pythagorean]

What? 1 drink, I don't think so. I drink more than 1 drink a month and I never get drunk. Who came up with that rule?

If you've been to AA then everything you ever do makes you an alcoholic.

They call people like you and me "maintenance alcoholics"

(I was forced to go to two AA meetings for a 'minor in possessoin' when I was younger, not for any drunken behavior or anything, I just like a beer everyone once in a while)

 

[Danger]

(I was forced to go to two AA meetings for a 'minor in possessoin' when I was younger

Did you look into fighting that? Technically, that's unconstitutional (at least here) because it's a religious organization. You can be forced into some sort of rehab, but that one shouldn't be allowed.

Okay, I'm going to turn in now. That 16th beer made me a tad drowsy. Later.

 

[Pythagorean]

Did you look into fighting that? Technically, that's unconstitutional (at least here) because it's a religious organization. You can be forced into some sort of rehab, but that one shouldn't be allowed.

Okay, I'm going to turn in now. That 16th beer made me a tad drowsy. Later.

Well, Alaska started as a foregin trade zone, and alcohol been a problem here, forever so it me regulations get tacked on.

Consequences for that MIP:
lose license until 21
AA meetings and community service OR fines
SR-22 Insurance only

All that has been removed now, because it was declared unconstitutional, as you say, and there was a punishment must fit crime argument too, because a kid who drinks doesn't necessarily drink irresponsibly (besides the fact that he's underage, I suppose).

 

[Pythagorean]

Oh yeah, and to the OP, definitely to NOT start smoking (cigarettes, crack, or meth)

 

[radou]

No, its not ok. Just as taking up smoking is not ok. Its dangerous poison for his mind. Hes depressed. If he feels better, he's going to think it was because Jesus made him better, and that's exactly what those nuts at church want him to think. Reason goes out the window with these people.

You are *such* a stereotype, man.

 

[JasonRox]

Surrealist, you are prompting me to dump some **** that I don't usually publicize. I only hope that my public embarrassment can be of help to you. It's not really that much of a sacrifice, since the people here who know my true identity are friends that I would trust with my life.
For one thing, any idiot who wants to hang out a shingle can be a 'psychotherapist'; there's no regulation. Stay away from any new-age gurus or herbalists or aromatherapists or any of that bull****. Find a good psychiatrist (who, by definition, has to have an MD). If you absolutely have to, settle for a certified clinical psychologist. (But remember that Dr. Phil is one of those, and he's a total typical Texas bully-boy
****ing fruitcake.)
Church-wise, I would recommend Unitarian-Universalist. My old man was an agnostic, and also a preacher for that denomination. Other than an occassional prayer or hymn, they're pretty much just a community group like any social club. I'm a semi-militant atheist myself, but there is at least one member here that I admire intensely, who is a Unitarian. Perhaps s/he will approach you about it. It's the least religious religion on the planet. (My dad got religious education kicked out of the Ontario school system. )
By the definition of 'alcoholic' that I saw listed, I'm so far off of the chart that I should be in a lab somewhere. I have anywhere from 4 to 14 beers every day. Average is probably about 6. This being a weekend, and Saturday being 'take a beer to work' day, I had 3 for breakfast, 6 for my extended lunch, and am on the 4th or 5th since getting home. It's only a quarter to 9, so I'll have at least 4 more before hitting the sheets.
I am, incidentally, on Wellbutrin and Cilaxis, one each per day. They don't do much to curtail the drinking (in fact, they seem to increase it), but I was down to as few as 3 cigarettes a day for a while, and am now back up to about 2/3 pack. That's still better than the 2 packs that I was on before. Mainly, however, I for very good reason refer to them as my 'I don't want to kill anybody today' pills. If you're okay to start with, they can destroy your mind. Mine was destroyed to start with, and these suckers made life worth living again.

My uncle used to drink like that. Have beer for break and all that jazz, and so on. His liver isn't working well or barely at all right now. Stop drinking? Well, drinking in the way that you are and my uncle, the body tends to forget how to live without alcohol. Either way with alcohol or no alcohol, you're body is slowly drifting away.

No offense, but you speak of it like it's a "tough" man thing. Personally, I see nothing tough about it. Maybe idiocy, but certainly not "tough".

If I were you, I would stop. (Smoking and drinking.) Not easy, well suck it up. Easier said than done? I don't give a **** and do it anyways period. You sit here telling the world how you're dieing away with these diseases and well doing nothing about it. With those kind of traits, people will have a hard time listening to you for advice. Not that many people want help from those who can barely help themselves.

A lady from work just told me she has chronic bronchitis (spelling?) right after she was diagnosed. She took it quite well... actually she didn't seem bothered by it. I was just outside of the doctors office, so I was the first person she told. She smoked for probably just as long as you Danger. Not 100% sure though, but she is 50 years old and has been smoking for about or atleast 30 years. Deadly illness just like you. She quit and so did my uncle. Why can't you?

 

[larkspur]

Yeah, that's a good idea. I have been trying to drink decaf lately because I've noticed that too much caffeine only intensifies the anxiety. I tried exercising a few months ago... it seemed to help, but I don't always feel like doing it. Actually, I never feel like doing it... but no one ever said life is easy.

I never feel like exercising either but I find I sleep much more soundly when I do, so I make myself get out and do it. It is much easier to get motivated when I work out with a friend.

 

[dontdisturbmycircles]

My uncle used to drink like that. Have beer for break and all that jazz, and so on. His liver isn't working well or barely at all right now. Stop drinking? Well, drinking in the way that you are and my uncle, the body tends to forget how to live without alcohol. Either way with alcohol or no alcohol, you're body is slowly drifting away.

No offense, but you speak of it like it's a "tough" man thing. Personally, I see nothing tough about it. Maybe idiocy, but certainly not "tough".

If I were you, I would stop. (Smoking and drinking.) Not easy, well suck it up. Easier said than done? I don't give a **** and do it anyways period. You sit here telling the world how you're dieing away with these diseases and well doing nothing about it. With those kind of traits, people will have a hard time listening to you for advice. Not that many people want help from those who can barely help themselves.

A lady from work just told me she has chronic bronchitis (spelling?) right after she was diagnosed. She took it quite well... actually she didn't seem bothered by it. I was just outside of the doctors office, so I was the first person she told. She smoked for probably just as long as you Danger. Not 100% sure though, but she is 50 years old and has been smoking for about or atleast 30 years. Deadly illness just like you. She quit and so did my uncle. Why can't you?

These are kinda harsh words for somebody who is trying to help someone out, aren't they? I don't think Danger is asking for sympathy, but is just trying to help out by sharing his story.

Surrealist you said you were looking for a 'fight club'... Why not join up for kick boxing / boxing / whatever lessons to get your mind off things?

 

[humanino]

I would like to add a few things. As everybody also said, do not start smoking. That would certainly be one of the stupidest decision. It is however not true that one cannot quit. I have quit. I had been smoking for ten years, and a lot. Every time I think about it, I feel like I stepped out of slavery, and now the sky is brighter. Seriously

Get yourself busy, stay active as Chi Meson adviced you. Even if you do not like sport now, if you start doing it on a regular basis, little by little more everyday, you will see that after a few weeks you will not only like it, but you will miss it if you don't do it Get addicted to sport, it is good for your health

And of course a creative activity is excellent to set you in a good mood. Playing music, or painting, or poetry writing, very efficient to get outside all the feelings you want to express, be it anger, pain, or joy !

 

[honestrosewater]

What would be really cool is a community in which to discuss philosophical and psychological issues as they pertain to everyday life without having to resort to a dependency on religious dogma. Maybe such a group would be called something like a philosophy club.

Talks to us. We gots problems.

Did you say that thinking about God helps you deal with loss? Are you looking for some kind of fairness or justice or a parental figure or something? I'm just curious. No pressure to answer. I am agnostic now, but I was raised a Christian. My dad wasn't around, actually, neither of my parents were really there for me, and that's one thing that I liked about God. He added some justice and caring to the world.

I just remembered that religious discussions are on thin ice around here, but as long as it sticks to how some religious ideas are helpful to you personally rather than diatribes on why one religion is obviously wrong and all of its followers are brainwashed idiots, I imagine it would be okay.

Oh, yeah: do not start smoking!1111111 I quit ~1.5 years ago after smoking for ~10 years.

 

[Poop-Loops]

Seriously though... has anyone here ever been to a professional therapist. All they do is talk out of their ass and verify the fact that when rich kids grow up and get Ivy League educations, they cannot possibly understand the problems of people who really have problems.

I have. I have depression and went to see one to get it sorted. It helped beyong belief. Just having someone to talk to who could understand was magnificant. If the one you went to sucked, find a new one.

 

[radou]

Oh, yeah: do not start smoking!1111111 I quit ~1.5 years ago after smoking for ~10 years.

Hey, congratulations!

For some reason, I thought you were still smoking.

 

[Ki Man]

Dont smoke. Find something constructive that will relieve you when you feel down. Smoking isn't the magical answer to everything, and there are many other thigns you can do that are goign to pay out better in the end.

my grandpa is in his 70s and he's been smoking for over 50 years. He was in the army and served in Korea and Vietnam but the hardest thing he has ever tried is quitting. He's tried to quit so many times but even with the help of doctors he can't stop. When I visit he tells me the best thing you can ever do for yourself is not start. Strangely enough though, he doesn't have cancer or anything. I guess he's just lucked out compared to certain other cases

 

[honestrosewater]

Hey, congratulations!

For some reason, I thought you were still smoking.

Thanks.

Oh, also, I think Stoicism has some great ideas about dealing with loss, depression, anxiety, and related things, if you're philosophically-inclined. My childhood and adolescence was basically one tragedy after another, and I have an anxiety disorder whose symptoms started at around 17. I've talked to dozens of counselors, psychologists, etc. for various lengths of time, but the most helpful ideas for me came from Aristotle, Epictetus, Shakespeare, modern scientific theories, etc. Helpful ideas can come from lots of places.

Of course, feeling depressed or anxious isn't necessarily only a matter of your outlook any more than diabetes is just a matter of having the wrong attitude, and seeing a medical professional might be necessary. But if you aren't too keen on taking psychoactive drugs, you might want to ask your doctor (or whoever) about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_behavioral_therapy" , or look into it yourself. Have you ever heard of this? A lot of it is pretty common-sensical stuff once think about it (I had a lot of those "why didn't I think of that?" moments), and it worked nicely for me.

CBT has a good evidence base in terms of its effectiveness in reducing symptoms and preventing relapse. It has been clinically demonstrated in over 400 studies to be effective for many psychiatric disorders and medical problems for both children and adolescents. It has been recommended in the UK by the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence as a treatment of choice for a number of mental health difficulties, including post-traumatic stress disorder, OCD, bulimia nervosa and clinical depression. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy most closely allies with the Scientist-Practitioner Model of Clinical Psychology, in which clinical practice and research is informed by a scientific perspective; clear operationalization of the "problem" or "issue;" an emphasis on measurement (and measurable changes in cognition and behavior); and measurable goal-attainment.

 

[Danger]

These are kinda harsh words for somebody who is trying to help someone out, aren't they? I don't think Danger is asking for sympathy, but is just trying to help out by sharing his story.

Thank you for that, Circles. You nailed it. I don't need sympathy, I don't want it, and I certainly don't deserve it. I was merely pointing out the sort of traps that are out there when one starts messing about with nasty substances.
Jason, despite whatever admiration you hold for your relatives, you obviously have no concept of what addiction is. I can easily quit both drinking and smoking cold turkey. The point is, I don't want to. That is the serious side of being addicted; I enjoy both so much that I'm willing to face the physical and financial hardships attendant thereto.
My habits have no detrimental effect upon my work or home life, and I hope none toward my admittedly meager contributions to the Physics and Engineering forums. Should they start to do so, I'll change.

 

[SpaceTiger]

Should I Start Smoking?

If you have to ask, then Darwin would say yes.

 

[Danger]

And once again the Tiger pounces from his hiding spot in the weeds.

 

[marlon]

Maybe if I started smoking

YES YES YES. I can speak from personal experience : IT IS JUST GREAT !

The trade-off is that I would reduce my life expectancy

Is that REALLY such a bad thing ?

marlon

 

[Danger]

YES YES YES. I can speak from personal experience : IT IS JUST GREAT !



Is that REALLY such a bad thing ?

marlon

Sometimes I just got to sit back and shake my head...

 

[honestrosewater]

I think marlon might have an oral fixation.

 

[Huckleberry]

I can easily quit both drinking and smoking cold turkey. The point is, I don't want to.

I'm a bit skeptical of this. I've heard many people make similar statements and then fail in their attempt to quit. Have you never in your life attempted to quit, or is there something different now that would make quitting easier and simultaneously less desirable to you? I suppose what I mean to ask is, why do you not want to quit, and what makes you certain that you could if you desired to?

Surrealist, smoking is something that can dominate a person's life just like any addictive drug. The typical smoker plans their day around their cigarette breaks. I've even caught myself thinking of having a cigarette while I'm having a cigarette, as if the one I'm smoking at the moment was so insufficeint that I forgot I was even smoking. As I reached for the pack to get a cigarette I realized that I had one already in my hand.

Eventually you come to a point where you make a decision about continuing the habit or quitting. That's usually when you start to notice some of the nastier effects, the calloused thumb, the smoker's cough, the discolered fingers and teeth. Then there's heart conditions and emphesyma, cancer, strokes and all that other deadly stuff. You make a decision to either at least try to quit, or accept the inevitable, perhaps many years sooner than it has to be. If that is acceptable to you then by all means, light one up. But don't expect it to ease your anxiety in any way. A gun would be much faster and less painful.

 

[Pythagorean]

I'm a bit skeptical of this. I've heard many people make similar statements and then fail in their attempt to quit. Have you never in your life attempted to quit, or is there something different now that would make quitting easier and simultaneously less desirable to you? I suppose what I mean to ask is, why do you not want to quit, and what makes you certain that you could if you desired to?

That's the point.

This is the difference between true addicts and habit. Addicts are aware of the dangers, but are willing to sacrifice for it. I'm a nicotine addict myself. I have to trick myself and force myself to not smoke. It's intolerable, it's miserable; it's much better smoking.

I was going out with this girl once, who didn't smoke, and I quit smoking for her, and I wanted to because I was (foolishly) in love. After I broke up with her, there was no reason not to smoke anymore (remember, we addicts don't take our mortality that seriously unless there's an immediate threat).

I enjoy smoking, it's 'worth it' to me. I'm sure with a hole in my throat, a voice box, or lung cancer, I'd have a different point of view because the threat would suddenly appear immediate to me.

I must also say, that what you like and what you don't like isn't necessarily a choice, either (or at least, it's up for debate). So the sentence "I can quit anytime" really means "I can quit when it's worth it to me" as was the example with the girl I was (foolishly) in love with. Our own lives being shortened and hampered by smoking isn't a threat enough to us.

 

[Danger]

I'm a bit skeptical of this. I've heard many people make similar statements and then fail in their attempt to quit. Have you never in your life attempted to quit, or is there something different now that would make quitting easier and simultaneously less desirable to you? I suppose what I mean to ask is, why do you not want to quit, and what makes you certain that you could if you desired to?

Hi, Huck. Fair questions.
I have, in fact, quit drinking several times. Once I've gone a day or so without a beer, I have no desire for one. I was on a no-alcohol court order for a year as a consequence of a firearms offense, which didn't cause any hardship at all. If left to my own devices, there's no problem. Unfortunately, my social circle is all pretty much alcohol-oriented. That ranges from in-laws and neighbours (and the in-laws are my neighbours as well) to the other friends who are all pool or dart players or otherwise bar-room acquaintances. Believe it or not, the only people around here that I can hold a PF-type conversation with (ie: not inane) are ones that I met and became friends with when I was working in the bar. That's still the only place that I get to see them. In an environment where everyone else is drinking, I just can't feel comfortable unless I am too. My social life is very important to me, and drinking happens to be a part of it.
As for the smoking, I was (per previous post) down to 2 or 3 smokes a day. For the most part, I take a couple of drags and then put it out for later use. Most of that is due to the Wellbutrin that I'm on every day for life. You might know it better a Xyban, which is marketed primarily as a stop-smoking aid. In addition, I have an aerosol nicotine inhaler that more than satisfies what little physical addiction I still have if I choose to use it (Nicorette brand). Unfortunately, it doesn't provide the taste or heat or other physical sensations that I really enjoy about smoking.
And thank you for approaching this as a genuine question rather than an attack. There's still lots of room for discussion.

edit: That was a really nice post that you sneaked in there, Pythagorean. Right to the point.

 

[Huckleberry]

I can understand that. I wouldn't be terribly upset if I were to die tomorrow. Why should I be upset if I die 30 years from now. What would upset me is if something happened because of smoking that limited some other aspect of my life that I enjoy. Your girlfriend is a good example in a positive (hopefully) direction. A stoma would be something in a negative direction. If something of that nature happened then I would consider the struggle of quitting.

Just before I moved to Portland, about the same time that HRW quit smoking, my aunt died from smoking related cancer. My mother spent the last month with her. I still smoke. My mother does also. I usually consider myself a sensitive person. I have no idea why this doesn't phase me. Death in general has little meaning. I guess that's why I am not even trying to quit smoking right now.

[I try not to attack anyone, but especially not my friends for doing the same things I do myself. No worries there. I was just curious.]

 

[Danger]

[I try not to attack anyone, but especially not my friends for doing the same things I do myself. No worries there. I was just curious.]

I know that, pal. My comment about that was just my way of whapping Jason across the snout with a rolled-up newspaper.
I well remember you sharing your personal hardhips with us, and felt honoured that you trusted us with your pain. I only hope that, among us all, we can manage to help Surrealist through his.